14-10-2014, 00:37
it got Tony Dungy and Mike Tomlin jobs Charles, they've done pretty well for themselves as well as some others
Chris Powell calls for the Rooney Rule
14-10-2014, 01:52
Yes, they have done well although Rooney himself said that Tomlin was not hired because of the rule as he had already interviewed Ron Rivera to fulfill his duty under the rule. Since the rule was implemented there have definitely been more minority hirings in the NFL so maybe it does work.
14-10-2014, 12:32
True but it got Tomlin the coordinators job at the vikings which got him the Steelers job, its all about getting a foot in the door.
while i disagree with it in principle the rule is greatly misunderstood by many people as it is often misrepresented in the press and while its ok to say " its not fair everyone should get a job on merit" we would be being incredibly naive to say racism isnt a huge problem in society and institutional racism is a huge problem in football right now
so for me i dont think something akin to the Rooney rule in football would be a bad thing
while i disagree with it in principle the rule is greatly misunderstood by many people as it is often misrepresented in the press and while its ok to say " its not fair everyone should get a job on merit" we would be being incredibly naive to say racism isnt a huge problem in society and institutional racism is a huge problem in football right now
so for me i dont think something akin to the Rooney rule in football would be a bad thing
15-10-2014, 14:35
(This post was last modified: 15-10-2014, 23:16 by Marco4.
Edit Reason: Making 700 words about 200
)
Hang about, about four posts into this conversation with myself, I realised I ought to rein it in.
I stand by my points, but by the time I get to 600 words, it really should be elsewhere.
Basically, much as I agree there's fewer black managers than one might expect, I do wonder if that is - at least partially - as a result of (English) black players being predominantly forward players, when defenders or defensively minded midfielders are more often selected for management roles. I know that English football is biased towards those who physically develop earlier, and I also know that black children tend to grow to maturity faster than white; so they stand out earlier in school football.
All that said, across Europe, only France seems to hire a 'decent' amount of black managers, even if Antoine Kombouare is the only current one who springs to mind.
I stand by my points, but by the time I get to 600 words, it really should be elsewhere.
Basically, much as I agree there's fewer black managers than one might expect, I do wonder if that is - at least partially - as a result of (English) black players being predominantly forward players, when defenders or defensively minded midfielders are more often selected for management roles. I know that English football is biased towards those who physically develop earlier, and I also know that black children tend to grow to maturity faster than white; so they stand out earlier in school football.
All that said, across Europe, only France seems to hire a 'decent' amount of black managers, even if Antoine Kombouare is the only current one who springs to mind.
17-10-2014, 12:14
I think probably Holland have a few black managers....Ruud Gullitt, Frank Reijkaard, Edgar Davids(Barnet??)
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You're right Shep - Rijkaard was a cracking manager during his spell at Barcelona and Patrick Kluivert is looking to get into it.
Just had a look at the Eredivisie list, and only Henk Fraser of Den Haag is black.
(To go with my other point - 7 defenders, 7 midfielders, 3 strikers and 1 'unknown' (he never made a league appearance and I'm not going to learn Dutch to find out)
Running with that baton, I had a look at the black players from France's squad in 1998.
Lilian Thuram - UNICEF ambassador
Marcel Desailly - has applied for a few jobs (notably Ghana's NT) but from what I've read is not that good in interview.
Christian Karembeu - Ambassador with Olimpiacos
Patrick Vieira - Manchester City Reserve manager
Bernard Diomede - Runs his own football academy
Bernard Lama - Was manager of Kenya in 2006, but that ended 'rather oddly' - see here
Thierry Henry and David Trezeguet both still play.
Just had a look at the Eredivisie list, and only Henk Fraser of Den Haag is black.
(To go with my other point - 7 defenders, 7 midfielders, 3 strikers and 1 'unknown' (he never made a league appearance and I'm not going to learn Dutch to find out)
Running with that baton, I had a look at the black players from France's squad in 1998.
Lilian Thuram - UNICEF ambassador
Marcel Desailly - has applied for a few jobs (notably Ghana's NT) but from what I've read is not that good in interview.
Christian Karembeu - Ambassador with Olimpiacos
Patrick Vieira - Manchester City Reserve manager
Bernard Diomede - Runs his own football academy
Bernard Lama - Was manager of Kenya in 2006, but that ended 'rather oddly' - see here
Thierry Henry and David Trezeguet both still play.
17-10-2014, 22:23
(This post was last modified: 17-10-2014, 22:24 by EastLondonTerrier.)
People against the rooney rule need to educate themselves on the subject. It says one, and I mean ONE out of possibly hundreds of candidates for a job must be interviewed. Then, interviewed, not hired. Interviewed. Too much of this rule can result in an imbalance quite rightly, as shown by the civil services policy now of only interviewing minority candidates for positions because their own racism filled it with too many oxbridge and public school people. The FA, the Premier League and the football league have so much covert institutional racism in them its a joke. They're old boys clubs run by white middle class men only intent on making profits for their own personal gain. FIFA is the worst of all of them. These are not people who truly care about football. They care about money produced from football. Look at Scudamores comments and how absolutely no one did anything about it. The Fa were scared to and the premier league didn't give a shit whilst the football league are absolutely powerless. Jason Roberts has been brilliant in exposing this recently. Long may it continue.
how the xxxx are you going to get more black managers in the game when owners and clubs have racist ideologies still and our coaching system is so shit as it is that we can't get enough english managers to the top let alone black managers. Radical change needs to happen and soon. Otherwise we'll become also-rans. If we aren't already arguably.
how the xxxx are you going to get more black managers in the game when owners and clubs have racist ideologies still and our coaching system is so shit as it is that we can't get enough english managers to the top let alone black managers. Radical change needs to happen and soon. Otherwise we'll become also-rans. If we aren't already arguably.
18-10-2014, 00:37
I'm fine with it as long as there is no positive discrimination.
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18-10-2014, 00:46
I don't really agree with these rules.. Cream will rise to the top ....All for giving everyone a fair go, but lets face it; it aint going to happen, as it does not happen in places like govt and civil service, .....
18-10-2014, 01:59
Cream rises to the top as long as it doesn't get skimmed off and discarded on the way up or even when it's at the top.
I find it amusing how many so called coaches are given top managers jobs (doesn't matter what colour they are) who have barely passed the minimum coaching badges and qualifications let alone the top one's. There always seems to be a slack handful even in the Prima Donna League that are still trying to get their FIFA badge. It might cost a few bob to get qualified (allowed against tax surely) but what the (can't use this bad word but starts with f and rhymes with duck) are these guys doing in the afternoons when they are players?
I got my qualifications by working 4 days a week and going to college in the next West Yorkshire towns and cities by bus and train for one whole 12 hour day and 1 or 2 evening 3-4 hour sessions then doing my homework on other evenings or weekends between watching Town and wandering down to Thrum Hall to watch the rugby (and the odd Saturday night speedway session down the Shay). Is that too hard a path to follow for so called professional guys that do 4 hour days at most and want to teach other guys how to kick a bag of wind around when they retire these days? There's so much stuff on-line these days they probably won't even need to travel to a college to do the course work.
Don't care what your colour or your sex is, if you've got the badges or certificates and maybe some of the experience then you can apply for the job. If you haven't got the first two at least as a minimum, why not? You can't expect an interview just because you applied for the job. If your CV looks good enough, you will probably get an interview. Up to you from there on in. Seems to work OK every where else without any obvious Rooney rule (except Government type jobs that for some reason are definitely based on quota's).
I find it amusing how many so called coaches are given top managers jobs (doesn't matter what colour they are) who have barely passed the minimum coaching badges and qualifications let alone the top one's. There always seems to be a slack handful even in the Prima Donna League that are still trying to get their FIFA badge. It might cost a few bob to get qualified (allowed against tax surely) but what the (can't use this bad word but starts with f and rhymes with duck) are these guys doing in the afternoons when they are players?
I got my qualifications by working 4 days a week and going to college in the next West Yorkshire towns and cities by bus and train for one whole 12 hour day and 1 or 2 evening 3-4 hour sessions then doing my homework on other evenings or weekends between watching Town and wandering down to Thrum Hall to watch the rugby (and the odd Saturday night speedway session down the Shay). Is that too hard a path to follow for so called professional guys that do 4 hour days at most and want to teach other guys how to kick a bag of wind around when they retire these days? There's so much stuff on-line these days they probably won't even need to travel to a college to do the course work.
Don't care what your colour or your sex is, if you've got the badges or certificates and maybe some of the experience then you can apply for the job. If you haven't got the first two at least as a minimum, why not? You can't expect an interview just because you applied for the job. If your CV looks good enough, you will probably get an interview. Up to you from there on in. Seems to work OK every where else without any obvious Rooney rule (except Government type jobs that for some reason are definitely based on quota's).
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