[0762]

Couldn't be trusted as PM??? I'm not a Corbyn fan but this was always a script from the movie, "Dumb and Dumber" because the other guy, Johnson, is a "serial liar" and has proved it time n time again! Dumb won the contest ha ha ha ha - that is one of the reasons why lotsa people hadn't a clue who to vote for and what an advert that is for British/English politics worldwide!! What a joke!! Here is a serious and difficult question to answer - Who was the last very good or great British PM if one looks back from now??? Looking back at the list, say over the past 80 years, there are three from recent times who were classified in different OPs as the worst in the last 100 years and they were coincidentally Tory PMs. Guess who they were? And we have just watched an English population meekly bringing in another Tory PM with a huge majority and totally unscrutinised - BIZARRE AND AS UNINTELLIGENT AS IT GETS!! THE STOOPID VOTE WINS THE DAY AS FAMOUSLY COMMENTED ALL THESE YEARS AGO BY TRUMP HA HA HA Now we await the future "damage" and that will not be funny at all!!

[St Charles Owl]

Whichever way you want to allocate the names dumb and dumber to BJ and Corbyn, traditional Labour supporters voted with their feet that Corbyn could not be trusted with the top job!! Corbyn found himself in between a rock and hard place with regards to Brexit, Labour constituencies in their droves vote to Leave but the Party officially wanted to remain, and throughout the last three years he has dithered time after time as to what his or the party line is with regard to the result and the way forward. He needed to lead the party, he needed to make a decision where they stood on Brexit and then provide his leadership and justify why the party with him at the head of it was making this decision, and then he had to lead the party and fight for that position!! But he ended up promising a new referendum to a population who clearly was fed up with it all and certainly didn’t want to drag it out with another referendum, he had to either back Brexit or back scrapping it, and he once again dithered as Wakey put it.

[0762]

You could replace the "dumb" description with "buffoon" SCO because that was a common enough word used to describe Johnson throughout England. All that he and his fascist party did was provide that one soundbite - "Get Brexit Done". It was direct, robotic and to the point because a lotta the population in England were obsessed with and favoured Brexit. As you say, and has been often said throughout this OP - Corbyn "sat on the fence" and dithered instead of "choosing a side" and, more importantly, READING THEIR POLITICAL SITUATION IN ENGLAND PROPERLY. Also why did the fool walk into that election trap and agree to having a Xmas election and then comment, "I've been assured there will be no hard Brexit"????? Somebody explain that to me because I thought he was an absolute idiot to concede to a Xmas GE!!!!???? The SNP wanted that election because they had a solid plan and it was successful!!!! In Scotland, the SNP similarly advertised a direct decisive message to a population that they knew intimately in a political sense - Stop Brexit, stop Johnson (despised in Scotland!!!) and vote SNP if you want independence for Scotland - it was a clear message and mandate and it attained a landslide victory with only a handful of MPs, all Tory, who are left in Scotland to preach to a Scot population about their pro Brexit vision - none of the other elected MPs, obviously incl SNP, want Brexit!! These remaining Tory MPs are now being "terrorised" as I speak - they are living in the wrong country with a different political philosophy and they've been shocked by this landslide victory! I wasn't - I predicted it (49 seats said I and missed it by 1 seat!) and expected Johnson's win as well due to many of the reasons previously debated in this OP!

[spireitematt]

Thats the problem labour have going forward - I mean its easy to blame Corbyn but labours vote in these areas has been dropping since blair. - How do they appeal to the 'stoopid vote' without selling their democratic socialist roots out ?

I'm of the opinion we need a strong labour party in England to achieve independence. From the current crop of potential leaders only Starmer looks electable, but is he going to appeal on the doorsteps in middle England ?

The gigs fucked.

Starmer won't be the leader, Momentum have got full control, the NEC is full of Momentum. The next leader will be Corbyn's protege, Corbyn will choose one he wants to be the next leader and Momentum and the Corbynista members will vote for them and will get fully behind them and then we will be back to square one, where we have an ineffective opposition with an unelectable party and Labour will be out for such a long time.

Labour is going to tear itself apart and Momentum and the moderates are going to fight and the party will be split and we could see the party splitting up with a new party being formed.

---

You could replace the "dumb" description with "buffoon" SCO because that was a common enough word used to describe Johnson throughout England. All that he and his fascist party did was provide that one soundbite - "Get Brexit Done". It was direct, robotic and to the point because a lotta the population in England were obsessed with and favoured Brexit. As you say, and has been often said throughout this OP - Corbyn "sat on the fence" and dithered instead of "choosing a side" and, more importantly, READING THEIR POLITICAL SITUATION IN ENGLAND PROPERLY. Also why did the fool walk into that election trap and agree to having a Xmas election and then comment, "I've been assured there will be no hard Brexit"????? Somebody explain that to me because I thought he was an absolute idiot to concede to a Xmas GE!!!!???? The SNP wanted that election because they had a solid plan and it was successful!!!! In Scotland, the SNP similarly advertised a direct decisive message to a population that they knew intimately in a political sense - Stop Brexit, stop Johnson (despised in Scotland!!!) and vote SNP if you want independence for Scotland - it was a clear message and mandate and it attained a landslide victory with only a handful of MPs, all Tory, who are left in Scotland to preach to a Scot population about their pro Brexit vision - none of the other elected MPs, obviously incl SNP, want Brexit!! These remaining Tory MPs are now being "terrorised" as I speak - they are living in the wrong country with a different political philosophy and they've been shocked by this landslide victory! I wasn't - I predicted it (49 seats said I and missed it by 1 seat!) and expected Johnson's win as well due to many of the reasons previously debated in this OP!

There doesn't have to be a hard Brexit now because now Johnson has a 80 seat majority he doesn't have to appeal and please the ERG anymore, so he could become more liberal but I doubt that.

[St Charles Owl]

You could replace the "dumb" description with "buffoon" SCO because that was a common enough word used to describe Johnson throughout England. All that he and his fascist party did was provide that one soundbite - "Get Brexit Done". It was direct, robotic and to the point because a lotta the population in England were obsessed with and favoured Brexit. As you say, and has been often said throughout this OP - Corbyn "sat on the fence" and dithered instead of "choosing a side" and, more importantly, READING THEIR POLITICAL SITUATION IN ENGLAND PROPERLY. Also why did the fool walk into that election trap and agree to having a Xmas election and then comment, "I've been assured there will be no hard Brexit"????? Somebody explain that to me because I thought he was an absolute idiot to concede to a Xmas GE!!!!???? The SNP wanted that election because they had a solid plan and it was successful!!!! In Scotland, the SNP similarly advertised a direct decisive message to a population that they knew intimately in a political sense - Stop Brexit, stop Johnson (despised in Scotland!!!) and vote SNP if you want independence for Scotland - it was a clear message and mandate and it attained a landslide victory with only a handful of MPs, all Tory, who are left in Scotland to preach to a Scot population about their pro Brexit vision - none of the other elected MPs, obviously incl SNP, want Brexit!! These remaining Tory MPs are now being "terrorised" as I speak - they are living in the wrong country with a different political philosophy and they've been shocked by this landslide victory! I wasn't - I predicted it (49 seats said I and missed it by 1 seat!) and expected Johnson's win as well due to many of the reasons previously debated in this OP!

You hit the nail on the head here. BJ and the Tories read the mood of the country perfectly, Corbyn and Labour missed it completely. The general population was watching the country stagnate, investment was on hold, the pound had slumped and the markets were like them just waiting for a resolution. It had been three years since the referendum, it was time to get this done and move forward with whatever we have.

[hibeejim21]

Whichever way you want to allocate the names dumb and dumber to BJ and Corbyn, traditional Labour supporters voted with their feet that Corbyn could not be trusted with the top job!!  Corbyn found himself in between a rock and hard place with regards to Brexit, Labour constituencies in their droves vote to Leave but the Party officially wanted to remain, and throughout the last three years he has dithered time after time as to what his or the party line is with regard to the result and the way forward.  He needed to lead the party, he needed to make a decision where they stood on Brexit and then provide his leadership and justify why the party with him at the head of it was making this decision, and then he had to lead the party and fight for that position!!  But he ended up promising a new referendum to a population who clearly was fed up with it all and certainly didn’t want to drag it out with another referendum, he had to either back Brexit or back scrapping it, and he once again dithered as Wakey put it.

Agreed.

To be fair it was a rock and a hard place situation over brexit but I think if he'd taken a side Thursday could have been even worse. Views are too entrenched now.

Problem was the labour leader wasn't seen as credible, when asked why people gave the usual media soundbites. I think the labour manifesto which had great ideas was too ambitious, and people got a bit spooked.

Remember the pressure he was under from the moderates in his party to go 'remain'. They continuously broke ranks and undermined him.

Centrist politics in England is dead now, we have a very right wing government in power now. Like I said there are 2 different sets of labour voters, and 2 different sets of labour politicians. They need someone to unite them fast or they could be lost for good!

[spireitematt]

Whichever way you want to allocate the names dumb and dumber to BJ and Corbyn, traditional Labour supporters voted with their feet that Corbyn could not be trusted with the top job!!  Corbyn found himself in between a rock and hard place with regards to Brexit, Labour constituencies in their droves vote to Leave but the Party officially wanted to remain, and throughout the last three years he has dithered time after time as to what his or the party line is with regard to the result and the way forward.  He needed to lead the party, he needed to make a decision where they stood on Brexit and then provide his leadership and justify why the party with him at the head of it was making this decision, and then he had to lead the party and fight for that position!!  But he ended up promising a new referendum to a population who clearly was fed up with it all and certainly didn’t want to drag it out with another referendum, he had to either back Brexit or back scrapping it, and he once again dithered as Wakey put it.

Centrist politics in England is dead now, we have a very right wing government in power now. Like I said there are 2 different sets of labour voters, and 2 different sets of labour politicians. They need someone to unite them fast or they could be lost for good!

Looks like it will be Rebecca Long-Bailey.

[hibeejim21]

If it is that will be the end of them - she is nowhere near ready.

[Amelia Chaffinch]

I'm depressed.

[0762]

IMO Rebecca-Long-Bailey is definitely not that "charismatic" leader that the Labour Party really needs at this time. I have nothing against her but watched and listened to her in many an interview and she is OK but no "wowwww factor". However, one attribute that she has in abundance is her passion for the Labour Party and its social standing in helping many lower groups of people who are now "victims" of this huge poverty gap between rich and poor that has been created by previous Tory govts and has the biggest disparity compared with any other European country - no wonder that the UN Commission on poverty has previously slammed the British govt for this unacceptable problem that they have played a major role in creating!!! Maybe she will mellow and blossom if elected by the Labour Party? Who knows eh!! Not for me though! There must surely be somebody in such a large institution like the Labour Party who is of a high standing and ample experience who can revitalise the party and chart a new direction with the appropriate people/SPADs on board???