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09-08-2017, 23:40
(This post was last modified: 09-08-2017, 23:42 by 0762.)
There is an alternative view that the world and the USA suddenly come to terms with the fact that N Korea is an established nuclear power and has become another member of that horrific 'select club' of countries that hold a nuclear deterrent and 'back off' - let diplomacy prevail 'or else'!! Aye, it's the dark legacy of the discovery of the atomic bomb during the famous Manhattan Project. Oppenheimer's chilling remarks later on re ever being involved with this deadly device/WMD and it's successive more deadly nuclear 'brothers', are so contrite and prophetic!! 
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10-08-2017, 09:52
(This post was last modified: 10-08-2017, 09:53 by hibeejim21.)
North Korea's GDP is less that US citizens spend on their pets, yet they have developed ICBM technology and are planning on hitting NYC. I don't think so. The only nation interested in a war are the US,they are going for "hearts and minds" the same way blair did over the WMDs in Iraq. I recognise the same tactics being used.
This cycle has been going on through generations of north Korean leaders - they make wild threats in order to gain concessions. China knows this fine and well and will do nothing stronger apart from ok stricter sanctions.
This is going to come down to how gung-ho the US military chain of command are. I'm 100% certain Trump will give the order for anything if someone can convince him it's a great idea, and furthermore, he gets to say he came up with it on twitter.
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10-08-2017, 11:31
(This post was last modified: 10-08-2017, 14:09 by 0762.)
I thought his 'body language' was a 'giveaway' during his 'fire and fury' comments - arms crossed and holding himself tightly and randomly looking at the ground and not at his attentive audience of reporters etc. Then his Secretary of State, Rex Tillerson, uttered remarks that were contrary to Trump's comments. Also was the timing of Trump's fire and fury speech mere coincidence on the same day that his former aide, Paul Manafort, had his home raided by the FBI!!?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017...-documents
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(10-08-2017, 09:52)hibeejim21 Wrote: North Korea's GDP is less that US citizens spend on their pets, yet they have developed ICBM technology and are planning on hitting NYC. I don't think so. The only nation interested in a war are the US,they are going for "hearts and minds" the same way blair did over the WMDs in Iraq. I recognise the same tactics being used.
This cycle has been going on through generations of north Korean leaders - they make wild threats in order to gain concessions. China knows this fine and well and will do nothing stronger apart from ok stricter sanctions.
This is going to come down to how gung-ho the US military chain of command are. I'm 100% certain Trump will give the order for anything if someone can convince him it's a great idea, and furthermore, he gets to say he came up with it on twitter.
I don't see this as the same as Iraq. NK are way more developed than Iraq ever was, their potential to be a threat is real, and even today are spouting about their plan to launch an attack on Guam. Yes their GDP is low but their spending on nukes is huge and seems to be unlimited. Maybe NK will use their capability purely as a bargaining chip but I have zero trust in their leader to stick to anything he says and see him as completely unpredictable and that makes him highly dangerous!!
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40874478
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40883372
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Your end line sounds like a description of Trump and that's where the debate initially started on a total oddball like Trump being well capable of bombing out a chosen target that has been 'kept at bay' during the Obama years or the Clinton years! Indeed, if I remember rightly, Clinton 'bought off' the N Korean leadership in the early 90s under similar circumstances.
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Trump and Kim are the proverbial 2 cheeks of the same arse.
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(10-08-2017, 20:18)0762 Wrote: Your end line sounds like a description of Trump and that's where the debate initially started on a total oddball like Trump being well capable of bombing out a chosen target that has been 'kept at bay' during the Obama years or the Clinton years! Indeed, if I remember rightly, Clinton 'bought off' the N Korean leadership in the early 90s under similar circumstances.
Yes I thought that when I was typing it, but for all Trump's bluster we still live in a somewhat civilized democracy where there are sane people talking to and advising him. Sure he doesn't always listen but even with Trump's finger on the button there is no way the US would strike first against NK. Trump may well fight back in the event of an attack though. I have zero faith in relying on Kim Jong-un to stick to his word, nor any faith that he wouldn't be prepared to strike first nor that he is surrounded by anything other than complete yes men puppets, he is the ultimate dictator who has been ruthless with his people and is singularly the most unpredictable world leader we currently have on this planet.
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10-08-2017, 23:23
(This post was last modified: 10-08-2017, 23:25 by 0762.)
The 'yes men muppets' would be 'no more' St Charles Owl if they cease to obey Kim lol!! In Trump's case it's a straightforward 'sacking' and not a clinical killing.
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(10-08-2017, 20:46)St Charles Owl Wrote: (10-08-2017, 20:18)0762 Wrote: Your end line sounds like a description of Trump and that's where the debate initially started on a total oddball like Trump being well capable of bombing out a chosen target that has been 'kept at bay' during the Obama years or the Clinton years! Indeed, if I remember rightly, Clinton 'bought off' the N Korean leadership in the early 90s under similar circumstances.
Yes I thought that when I was typing it, but for all Trump's bluster we still live in a somewhat civilized democracy where there are sane people talking to and advising him. Sure he doesn't always listen but even with Trump's finger on the button there is no way the US would strike first against NK. Trump may well fight back in the event of an attack though. I have zero faith in relying on Kim Jong-un to stick to his word, nor any faith that he wouldn't be prepared to strike first nor that he is surrounded by anything other than complete yes men puppets, he is the ultimate dictator who has been ruthless with his people and is singularly the most unpredictable world leader we currently have on this planet.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...mp-silence
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11-08-2017, 13:13
(This post was last modified: 11-08-2017, 13:15 by 0762.)
This Minnesota bombing story epitomises what we've been describing for a long time re the worst side of politics that is attached to Trump and it's vile administrative practise. The article itself is a very good exposure of populist practise as opposed to Obama and a far more pragmatic and intelligent way of dealing with things like this. Remember the good old USA is an inherently racist and oppressive country comparable to any previous S American regimes with the worst human rights violations (ref Amnesty International). So does this action/response really surprise anyone???
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