[hibeejim21]

Aye just because it took years to get to a court instead of mickey mouse tribunals its legality should be ignored. Do me a favour.

Its cheating pure and simple,and the "side letters" further compounds it via the players registrations. As far as I know no other clubs used ebts in this manner,and ones that even used them at all like arsenal or Celtic settled up long before hmrc came calling.

[St Charles Owl]

So other teams did use them in some form? Seems to me that the key difference here is the scale to which Rangers used EBTs but maybe more pertinently the fact that when their legality was questioned, unlike Arsenal and Celtic, Rangers were in no position to be able to settle up due to the financial state and therefore the HMRC had to come calling to get their money. I assume this is one of the many financial issues that led to them going bust when it was clear they couldn't pay the tax they owed.

[hibeejim21]

Why were they in no position to settle up? They were in the champions league.

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The key difference is other clubs were not completely reliant on them and paid thru liability.

Rangers also had a liability for a previous tax scheme which remains unpaid also,and was deemed illegal.

[St Charles Owl]

Why were they in no position to settle up? They were in the champions league.

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The key difference is other clubs were not completely reliant on them and paid thru liability.

Rangers also had a liability for a previous tax scheme which remains unpaid also,and was deemed illegal.

They were in no position to settle up because they were skint!!! They were completely mismanaged for years obviously, living beyond their means chasing a dream of some description!! EBTs were just another example of that mismanagement!! Had this happened in todays game then that participation in the Champions League would likely have seen enough money come into the club to pay these debts, but they were financially ruined by that point anyway!!

[hibeejim21]

Illegal mismanagement,just like the previous illegal scheme they signed de Boer with. And admitted liability for.

They have been robbing the game up here for years. Main reason why clubs voted them to div 3.

[St Charles Owl]

Illegal mismanagement,just like the previous illegal scheme they signed de Boer with. And admitted liability for.

They have been robbing the game up here for years. Main reason why clubs voted them to div 3.

Yep!! And court cases like the one we are seeing at the moment will expose these things providing the prosecution ask the right questions! Internal football investigations are not held in a court of law, you can fudge the truth or downright lie in those without any legal fear, you cannot do that in a courthouse!!

[hibeejim21]

Illegal mismanagement,just like the previous illegal scheme they signed de Boer with. And admitted liability for.

They have been robbing the game up here for years. Main reason why clubs voted them to div 3.

Yep!!  And court cases like the one we are seeing at the moment will expose these things providing the prosecution ask the right questions!  Internal football investigations are not held in a court of law, you can fudge the truth or downright lie in those without any legal fear, you cannot do that in a courthouse!!

The more that emerges from this the more the SFAs position is eroded. As edgie pointed out the celtic shareholders already have a legal action waiting in the wings.

[edgie]

I'll play devil's advocate on this, more as education for me than any real argument!!!

At the time Rangers were using EBTs to sign players they could not normally afford, isn't it true that EBTs were not illegal??  I know there has been some debate about the grey area of tax law that they came under, but weren't they outlawed at a later date??  Looking beyond football and just talking tax laws and loop holes in general, isn't this just another tax loop hole that was subsequently closed after its use came to light??  And surely back in the football world, Rangers can't be the only team in Britain who employed this method to get the players they wanted??

Chuck

The EBTs them self's may or may not have been illegal, we will find out when the big tax case is finally sorted, later this summer apparently. The issue is that HMRC say they where disguised remuneration. particularly as Rangers sent our "side letters" making the payments contractual. As long ago as 2004 EBTs were seen as dodgy and HMRC sent letters and notices saying that it was illegal the first court cases where started in 2010.
The issue in footballing terms was that it wasn't declared to the SPL and the SFA directly against the football rules , that all remuneration should be declared in the submission to the league. The internal SPL investigation ruled no issue as lord Nemo Smith rules that it was a loan and not remuneration.
They the wee tax case, which was ruled illegal almost immediately and also not declared to football authorities. This wasn't investigated at all by LNS as the SPL and the SFA deliberately avoided this in the terms of reference.
The investigation ruled that there was no "sporting advantage" as they were legal and as you say every club could use them, if the big tax case is ruled illegal then this obviously wrong.

[hibeejim21]

In letter King says tax scheme allowed Rangers to live on a"false economic basis for a long period of time"


Like I said "cheating".

[edgie]

Aye just because it took years to get to a court instead of mickey mouse tribunals its legality should be ignored. Do me a favour.

Its cheating pure and simple,and the "side letters" further compounds it via the players registrations. As far as I know no other clubs used ebts in this manner,and ones that even used them at all like arsenal or Celtic settled up long before hmrc came calling.

Jim the I know nothing about the Arsenal one
I know Celtic got juninio from Middlesbrough with the EBT set up already.
our chairman at the time took the position that this was dodgy and reported it to the SPL and the SFA, then paid the tax due.
The issue in footballing terms is not really the legality, just the fact that it wasn't disclosed to the football authorities. EDIT: our football authorities just hid behind the legality issue to reduce and mitigate any punishment
Rangers deliberately hid it from the authorities, side letters and all