[St Charles Owl]

2 shootings in 1 day in America. 1 in El Paso, Texas which has 20 dead so far and 1 in Dayton, Ohio which has 9 dead so far. 250 shootings so far this year.

The shooting in El Paso was at a Walmart so I’m sure Trump will suggest arming all Walmart employees rather than take a look at what further changes can be made about guns.

The usual thoughts and prayers will be the order of the day here for the NRA backed Republican Trump Party.

Nothing here will change. This will get blamed on something other than guns and give it a few days and the news cycle will move onto something else altogether!!

If the killing of 20+ five year olds at Sandy Hook didn’t lead to any changes, except the call to arm teachers, then these won’t make any difference either.

[hibeejim21]

The el paso killer wanted to murder as many Mexicans as possible. It was racially motivated.

This is what happens when your rhetoric is one of hatred and division, and when you stir up the thick as pigshit elements in society. You might get an electoral boost but there is always, always people suffering in the wake.

Especially when its mixed with an obsession with 'gun rights', based on something written in a time of war, when even a highly trained & disciplined 'professional' soldier would struggle to get off more than 3 rounds a minute, is nothing more than a 'national mental illness' (for want of a better description).

[St Charles Owl]

The el paso killer wanted to murder as many Mexicans as possible. It was racially motivated.

This is what happens when your rhetoric is one of hatred and division, and when you stir up the thick as pigshit elements in society. You might get an electoral boost but there is always, always people suffering in the wake.

Especially when its mixed with an obsession with 'gun rights', based on something written in a time of war, when even a highly trained & disciplined 'professional' soldier would struggle to get off more than 3 rounds a minute, is nothing more than a 'national mental illness' (for want of a better description).

Agree with all of this but none of it solves the problems, in fact it does the opposite, it gives the gun lobby an excuse as to why this happened. It wasn’t the guns fault, it was the individual behind the trigger who caused this and he was mentally deranged because he was a white supremacist. The debate over here has already started to move away from gun control and has moved onto the current incumbent on Pennsylvania Ave and whether or not he is a racist or a white nationalist and whether he is to blame for this!!! This has become something that the Democrats think can now be used to turn voters away from Trump and give them a better chance of removing him from office, certainly a worthy goal, but it does nothing for the ongoing slaughter of innocent people. Clinton and Obama were in power for 16 years between them, yet neither of them did anything meaningful with regards to gun laws and control that made any difference, I have no reason to believe whichever of the Dems running for President will be any different and thats assuming they can beat Trump in the first place!!!

[ritchiebaby]

Spot on, SCO. The NRA have the American constitution to fall back on and they'll be quite happy to have the blame for this shifted around and diluted to lessen the impact on them. There are too many vested interests in keeping the status quo. So while jim is right, nothing significant will change - there'll be more mass murders this month and then in September, ad infinitum.

It's extremely difficult to "take back control" once you've lost it, as we've discovered in the UK. And if you look around the world, it's not just our problem either.

[0762]

The el paso killer wanted to murder as many Mexicans as possible. It was racially motivated.

This is what happens when your rhetoric is one of hatred and division, and when you stir up the thick as pigshit elements in society. You might get an electoral boost but there is always, always people suffering in the wake.

Especially when its mixed with an obsession with 'gun rights', based on something written in a time of war, when even a highly trained & disciplined 'professional' soldier would struggle to get off more than 3 rounds a minute, is nothing more than a 'national mental illness' (for want of a better description).

Agree with all of this but none of it solves the problems, in fact it does the opposite, it gives the gun lobby an excuse as to why this happened.  It wasn’t the guns fault, it was the individual behind the trigger who caused this and he was mentally deranged because he was a white supremacist.  The debate over here has already started to move away from gun control and has moved onto the current incumbent on Pennsylvania Ave and whether or not he is a racist or a white nationalist and whether he is to blame for this!!!  This has become something that the Democrats think can now be used to turn voters away from Trump and give them a better chance of removing him from office, certainly a worthy goal, but it does nothing for the ongoing slaughter of innocent people.  Clinton and Obama were in power for 16 years between them, yet neither of them did anything meaningful with regards to gun laws and control that made any difference, I have no reason to believe whichever of the Dems running for President will be any different and thats assuming they can beat Trump in the first place!!!

Reflect back to Barack Obama's position when he experienced worse gun crimes than these current ones! I can recall his speeches where he was genuinely outraged and saddened at the human loss but one could gauge that his "hands were tied behind his back" because of this strong power hold of the NRA and other supporters of "the right to defend oneself with a gun", a Wild West initiative that even he could not eradicate and move towards a huge reduction in gun ownership and stricter gun licensing regs re even carrying a gun at any time.

[hibeejim21]

The el paso killer wanted to murder as many Mexicans as possible. It was racially motivated.

This is what happens when your rhetoric is one of hatred and division, and when you stir up the thick as pigshit elements in society. You might get an electoral boost but there is always, always people suffering in the wake.

Especially when its mixed with an obsession with 'gun rights', based on something written in a time of war, when even a highly trained & disciplined 'professional' soldier would struggle to get off more than 3 rounds a minute, is nothing more than a 'national mental illness' (for want of a better description).

Agree with all of this but none of it solves the problems, in fact it does the opposite, it gives the gun lobby an excuse as to why this happened.  It wasn’t the guns fault, it was the individual behind the trigger who caused this and he was mentally deranged because he was a white supremacist.  The debate over here has already started to move away from gun control and has moved onto the current incumbent on Pennsylvania Ave and whether or not he is a racist or a white nationalist and whether he is to blame for this!!!  This has become something that the Democrats think can now be used to turn voters away from Trump and give them a better chance of removing him from office, certainly a worthy goal, but it does nothing for the ongoing slaughter of innocent people.  Clinton and Obama were in power for 16 years between them, yet neither of them did anything meaningful with regards to gun laws and control that made any difference, I have no reason to believe whichever of the Dems running for President will be any different and thats assuming they can beat Trump in the first place!!!

Reflect back to Barack Obama's position when he experienced worse gun crimes than these current ones! I can recall his speeches where he was genuinely outraged and saddened at the human loss but one could gauge that his "hands were tied behind his back" because of this strong power hold of the NRA and other supporters of "the right to defend oneself with a gun", a Wild West initiative that even he could not eradicate and move towards a huge reduction in gun ownership and stricter gun licensing regs re even carrying a gun at any time.

Obama quite clearly wanted to solve the gun crisis in America and wanted stricter controls and more accountability from the gun industry, trump has no interest at all in tackling the issue and is already playing the mental health card to excuse this white supremacist.

Remember this latest disgrace comes hot on the heels of him telling fellow politicians to "go home".

[0762]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/oba...spartandhp

Obama's comments re this very subject are worth reading! Also did nobody notice in Trump's condemnation of the shootings in El Paso and Dayton that he invited the American population to condemn white supremacy, racism etc but he didn't actually personally condemn it himself. He didn't get "torn into" the populist and ultra right movements that are significantly involved in these hate crimes. I think his past history re dealing with events like the Charlotteville massacre in Carolina reveal the real story as alluded by Barrack Obama! Talking a "language of hate" in speeches etc will eventually "bite him in the bum" big-time and that is exactly what will happen as America, slowly but surely, recovers its inner soul from their own political nightmare!! UK please note eh!!

[0762]

I forgot to mention there is a Netflix film called "The Great Hack". To anybody who has not seen this film documentary, please watch it and be enlightened re the whole conspiracy re data manipulation, Cambridge Analytica, the manipulation of Facebook on a global scale to influence the election of Trump. Note, Steve Bannon, a known ultra-right fascist c### partly financed Cambridge Analytica and there is a link between Trump, CA's CEO Nix and Farage and many other RW associates like Aaron Ramsay!! This is worth a "watch" and exposes a really undemocratic and IMO criminal process of trying to influence elections, referenda and indeed anything of massive importance that matters to the unscrupulous bastards who wanna force their ideologies on targeted people of any population using data breaches that are illegal!! It is of sci-fi proportions but it is real, a massive eye opener!! The most alarming thing that has really "opened my eyes" is the fact that this shady data manipulating organisation, Cambridge Analytica, has practised the same data breach techniques globally in places like Brazil, Sierra Leone, Trinidad, Malaysia and many other countries where they've successfully imposed authoritarian governments on unsuspecting populations that have not realised the undemocratic methods that have been deployed by this company - hired by RW campaigners who are aware of the intense military precision that is deployed and of course, it is successful!! As a parliamentary investigation committee formally concluded re the UK-Brexit data breaches - "Our electoral system is 'not fit for purpose' and cannot cope with this kinda illegal activity". Alarming??? Absolutely!! And of course the RW reaction is the usual "witch hunt"/dirty tricks/fake news argument when in fact they have most certainly breached the democratic process to gain power and preach the "poison" that we have observed for years. Note in the case of Trump's election success it was reckoned by certain "whistleblowers" that 70k targeted voters (they called these people "persuadables" - they could be persuaded more easily to change their vote!) in key US states actually won the election for Trump and they showed how they did it!! It is scary TBF and the spread of their influence in imposing authoritarian governments globally is frightening!!

[hibeejim21]

Funny how the big bad super state supporting EU won't get involved in British politics but Donald Trump will stick his nose in anyway and any time he can.

Boris Trump.

[0762]

Sensational news - US Congress to investigate Trump at last with a view to moving towards impeachment of another US President!! I wish them well on this move by these Democrats and hope they succeed!!