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11-06-2016, 23:59
(This post was last modified: 12-06-2016, 13:19 by 0762.)
They are not blameless Amelia (read my previous thread #40) and I've watched some sickening scenes of sheer violence against anybody wearing an England shirt but IMO the prob has been 'stoked up big time' - as usual, I'll bet many innocent victims have got dragged in to the mire. Looking at Snoots thread re critical fans - I'd wager that these fans were attacked in the local port in these sickening attacks where England fans were literally 'getting their heads kicked in' by some sinister big people wearing balaclavas - really vicious and dangerous!! The craic re these Russian aggressors/fans seems to centre on an alliance of Zenet SP and CSKA Moscow ultras(?) causing mayhem in the city. They were possibly involved in the attacks inside the stadium just after the match ended!! As soon as I saw the flares and heard the thunder flashes from the Russian end of the ground, my gut told me something was gonna 'kick off' and I was right!! I believe there is more violence in the city as well - a poisonous atmosphere that has prevailed for the past three days!!
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Your original thread suggested that these things happen just because of the presence of England fans and I believe you're right. Even though these Ruskies are violent thugs I bet there's no trouble when they play Wales and Slovakia.
Wheras it'll continue wherever England go.
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(11-06-2016, 23:37)Amelia Chaffinch Wrote: I took it that you were having a pop at the English, 0762, but I didn't take offence personally. I'm quite happy for you to stimulate debate. I'm not proud of any troublemakers from the English camp but I also question who starts it. We know from other stories that there is a lot of prejudice in Russia so I'm sure they're not entirely blameless tonight.
They absolutely are not amelia. The russians have got some very heavy duty ultras (as have the ukranians and poles) and elements of the english support have been clashing with them for the last couple of days.
Its not the 80s any more where some england fans could go and wreck the joint abroad with only the police to stop them,now plenty of other countries fans will decide to respond to their 'come and have a go' attitude.
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(12-06-2016, 00:04)Lord Snooty Wrote: Your original thread suggested that these things happen just because of the presence of England fans and I believe you're right. Even though these Ruskies are violent thugs I bet there's no trouble when they play Wales and Slovakia.
Wheras it'll continue wherever England go.
As the saying goes LS - the 'proof is in the pudding' and let us indeed see what happens at England's other Euro venues as opposed to the happenings at most of the other venues incl those involving Wales and Slovakia.
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You see I remember when the Dutch fans were amongst some of the worst, yet it was the English who were being threatened with exclusion. There's always seemed to be an unfairness with the thug tag being attached to the English. I know we have a dreadful element and they should receive the harshest punishment / sanctions but I can honestly say I have been to matches all over England and only seen a couple of incidents. Snoots will have seen more because he did away matches in the 70s/80s and faced some horrendous behaviour from fans from clubs such as Leeds during that time.
Having said all this I would be wary of being in the same place as a "pride" of English fans abroad. I think I would be scared of what they could do, what others could do because ours are there, what they all could do because of expectations that something is going to happen by the media, police, governments, etc!
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12-06-2016, 00:36
(This post was last modified: 12-06-2016, 11:35 by 0762.)
I must say I have observed this 'phenomenon' in days gone by, wearing Scotland colours in Spain, in France, in England and in Glasgow. There is a huge element of antagonism attached to these extreme factions of 'fuelled up' England fans. There are some good books published down the years that cover this very topic and it's a multi-layered problem - lotsa issues attached to it! I'm assuming that general bad behaviour remains the same, based on televised footage of the events over the past 3 days.
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Trouble in Nice last night between Northern Ireland and Poland fans. Six arrests.
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(12-06-2016, 11:14)Lord Snooty Wrote: Trouble in Nice last night between Northern Ireland and Poland fans. Six arrests.
Plenty of previous between the 'loyal' and the poles going back to the previous qualifiers.
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12-06-2016, 11:33
(This post was last modified: 12-06-2016, 13:21 by 0762.)
I'm guessing the first event in Nice is an isolated incident that can happen at any venue - apparently a bottle thrown by a local youth and that 'sparked' the prob with this gang of local youths in Nice. I'm not reading about ensuing violence through the night and will be very surprised if this scenario arises. The other incident was again an isolated one but, as hibeejim says, there is some previous bad blood between factions of extreme RW Polish fans and elements of NI 'prody inspired' fans who I hope are in a minority within the mix of NI fans who wanna see their team doing well for a change.
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Much as I love tournament football, and much as I'd hate to disappoint lovely, decent Roy Hodgson who is doing his best to give us a team we can watch, genuinely support and in which we can feel a little silly nationalistic pride, I'd like to see us unilaterally withdraw from the tournament and issue an apology to the French people.
If some of our fans weren't acting like pricks Russian Ultras wouldn't feel there was anything to gain by attacking innocent fans.
Other countries might even follow our lead. After all they seem pretty quick to adopt the same ludicrous behaviour patterns.
And I'm heartily sick of seeing that stupid ******* advert that FOOTBALL IS NOTHING WITHOUT FANS. That is exactly what these idiots throwing bottles in cafes want to believe. They want to believe they are significant because in no other way have they been able to achieve. If they could play the bloody game they wouldn't be smashing up Marseilles. Football absolutely IS something without fans - people play it all over the world with hardly a soul to watch. You just need a few mates and a ball and you're off.
IT'S A GAME YOU BRANDED FcKU-PiG piss-ant advertising lard-arses. It's a lovely, lovely, poetic game ........ and it has no more to do with lumbering dumb-ox Russian Ultras than it is the property of the belching farting turnips we spew across the continent. It's our game. Those of us who love it - it's ours. It doesn't belong to Rupert Murdoch, Greg Dyke or some tit selling Jamie Vardy to Arsenal for a fee he can never justify. Get your cold capitalist hands off it ...... and you with the tattooed fingers, yes you drinking straight from bottle, it's not a video game, this is real life, so ***K OFF and STAY ***Ked OFF.
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