[0762]

It always amazes me when people think the UK is NOT corrupt.

Here's an interesting new development that arose from recent accusations against the British state by a former MSP, Campbell Martin, that Police Scotland have been aware of British MI5 infiltration of the SNP and the Scottish Govt at the highest levels - done under the Investigatory Powers Act which regulates spying on MSPs. Apparently the SNP became a major spying target after 1999 when they were the second largest political party in Scotland and membership still rising to eventually become the most popular. POLICE SCOTLAND REFUSING TO RESPOND TO THIS ACCUSATION!!!???? I'd like to raise this issue to another level - find these moles and do what they did to these ##### in Ireland - aye, this isn't a new covert practise by these insidious anti-democratic Brit bastards!!!! They carried out the same secretive, nasty activities all these years ago in Ireland and indeed, in N Ireland too!!!! And nobody up here surprised by these revelations esp after all the Brit nat/Brit gov defensive comments re their excessive finance of an anti-Scotland "Union Unit" while trying to undermine the financial position of the Scot govt in researching and producing the case for a future independent Scotland (a better country for all who live in it, a totally different political ideology/culture than the poison practised in England!!)

[theo_luddite]

They used to (probably still do) do it to the Labour Party and the Unions. Nowt new here about our state spying on us 0762. Just because you live North of Hadrian's Wall doesn't mean they won't spy on you too and it didn't start with the SNP either.

[0762]

I did say in my previous thread it was not a new practise by the Brit state. We are moving close to the end of the 1st quarter of the 21st century and these tactics are totally unacceptable within the borders of the sovereign country I live in and in any proper civilised society. A "whatabootery reasoning" is not a good one to dismiss this shit as something that should be allowed in my country!! End of!! We find theses bastards, we deal with them!! Totally unacceptable and lets expose this faux pas, bordering on criminality against another govt, and reveal this affrontery to all Scottish citizens - too many people still unaware of this shit!! If it becomes a "dirty political war" - so be it!! We are dealing with callous, undemocratic, secretive morons from another country!!

[theo_luddite]

I didn't say it was acceptable, just stop giving it the "we jocks are always the only victims of the state" bs. You aren't.

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.... and if you think an independent Jock government won't spy on its own you really are away with the fairies.

[0762]

Don't bother with the sanctimonious "we jocks are the victims shit" Theo - used before on this board so many times and so tiresome; I'm well beyond this kinda dismissive crap that crops up now and again when the debate doesn't suit some individuals, most of them resident in England!! Leave it out!! You are not talking to a juvenile citizen of Scotland. I'm "long in the tooth" and well accustomed to shitty, disrespectful remarks like this one and when it comes to a "no more discussion point", I'll just hit the ignore button and let other readers decide who is being disrespectful and trying to "stir it up" for whatever reason!!
I repeat, "this secret, covert activity is unacceptable and it looks like it is currently happening in the country I live in"!! One of the huge concerns is the fact that Police Scotland likely have current knowledge of these indiscretions and this is a Police force involved in an investigation of the SNP and political figures who have not been charged with anything. There is a huge question mark attached to the trust in this institution and its impartiality in political matters and security issues. Jim previously called this right re corrupt Brit states and there is so much past historical evidence to bear this out. And how are you so knowledgeable re the activities of any future Scottish govt?????? You don't even live in Scotland and this is uninformed speculation/bullshit, an unsubstantiated opinion set out to denigrate and match up to the poisonous shit/politics that is happening in your own warmongering country for far too long and all these authoritarian brigands in Westminster that are attached to it!! In fact, it is deserving of a response from an appropriate Scot govt MSP who would be more qualified to counter such an extreme remark!! We are nowhere near this level of spying or violating the human rights of our citizens!!! Of course a future independent Scot govt will rightly apply its own security measures to protect its borders/citizens and cover against future security threats etc, but this will be done within reason and will never be close to the toxic activities of current and past Westminster govts that the Scottish people never voted for. We will never vote in a fascist govt up here!! Leave the fairy tales for the books eh!!!

[ritchiebaby]

Don't bother with the sanctimonious "we jocks are the victims shit" Theo - used before on this board and so tiresome; I'm beyond this kinda dismissive crap that crops up now and again when the debate doesn't suit some individuals!! Leave it out!! You are not talking to a juvenile citizen of Scotland. I'm "long in the tooth" and well accustomed to shitty, disrespectful remarks like this one and when it comes to the point when I'll just hit the ignore button and let other readers decide who is being disrespectful and trying to "stir it up" for whatever reason!!
This secret, covert activity is unacceptable and it is happening in the country I live in!! One of the huge concerns is the fact that Police Scotland likely have current knowledge of these indiscretions and this is a Police force involved in an investigation of the SNP and political figures who have not been charged with anything. There is a huge question mark attached to the trust in this institution and its impartiality in political matters and security issues. Jim previously called this right re corrupt Brit states and there is so much past historical evidence to bear this out. And how are you so knowledgeable re the activities of any future Scottish govt?????? You don't even live in Scotland and this is uninformative speculation/bullshit, an unsubstantiated opinion set out to denigrate and match up to the poisonous shit/politics that is happening in your own warmongering country and all these authoritarian brigands in Westminster that are attached to it!! We are nowhere near this level of spying or violating the human rights of our citizens!!! Leave the fairy tales for the books and button it eh!!!

This forum is open to all, 0762, and theo is quite entitled to his opinion, which is very similar to your own in this instance. I've read many of your posts on a host of different topics and you are the master of "shitty, disrespectful remarks". That's all really, but a wee bit of respect for others' opinions wouldn't go amiss.

[0762]

What are you on about ritchie??????? Read his short thread again!!! I said that Theo's "poorly worded" remark(s) is an opinion, but I say it is designed to rile!! I also hold no malice against Theo either! Indeed I hardly debated anything with him in recent times and I'm sure he'll confirm that fact!! This particular technique/remark has been used before!! When is the last time I've come out with an extreme remark ritchie!!!!???????? Come on!!! I challenge you to flick back months n months n months n months and tell me when I have made any kinda questionable remark!!??? So you deem I'm disrespectful because I've perceived an element of disrespect re a particular remark about Scot victimhood (plus being "away with the fairies!!!), a deflection away from the issue that was made re unacceptable anti-Scot govt activity in Bella Caledonia btw!! I'm aware of my long term contributions on this board and I have never made a disrespectful remark for a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very long time (because of previous historical events that really enlightened me re SM boards and crass-questionable events/assumptions that people say on said boards) and yet it is noticeable that you seem to be quick to pounce on any "perceived extreme remark" from me in your opinion????? You've done it before and preached affrontery!!!!! However, that is a very, very, very long time ago - note I've previously watched and noted your so-called affrontery as much as you are watching and criticising me and my threads. Just be aware of that fact - it's a two-way process and I'm aware of your past criticisms!!! Of course the forum is open to all, of course Theo is entitled to his opinion (and some good ones too!!) and of course any member has a right of reply to the opinion of another member based on how that member interprets that opinion/remarks!!!!!!!!!!! TALK ABOUT PREACHING TO THE CONVERTED!! WOWWWWW!!
Note I rarely get embroiled in this kinda debate because of responses like the one that you just uttered!!! MASTER OF SHITTY DISRESPECTFUL REMARKS RITCHIE?????? REALLY????? HOW PERSONAL DO YOU WANT TO MAKE THIS CHAT!!??? Provide dates please - not recent I can assure you of that fact and that will will be so disappointing for you eh - quick to criticise after well over a year (or longer!), and over a minor disagreement re certain remark(s), no matter whether it was right or wrong!!!!!!!! That is why I challenged you to look back at my OP/thread history because your previous thread presents a false image of me appearing to be a serial offender of disrespect on a daily or weekly basis!! That is outrageous, untrue and worthy of a libel lawsuit! It also deflects away from the more important issue covering the subject matter debated in my thread and the concerns re spying on our democratically elected Scot govt and its governing political party, the SNP. To any reader entering this OP - "please read the relevant thread material and ignore this personal nonsense that deflects away from these serious anti-Scotland activities (and others!) that are happening up here".

[ritchiebaby]

I'm not sure how you get your assumptions, 0762. You introduced timelines into the argument, not me, and I've no interest in going back over hundreds of posts. I note you amended your original post, so I'm just going to let everything pass by without further comment.

However, I will add that we agree on most things on the Abstract Chat section, from the Tories to Donald Trump by way of the Brexit Deal, Keir Starmer and Vladimir Putin.

[theo_luddite]

Thanks ritchie for your comments.

0762, you've had a go at me about whataboutery - you introduced it with the "what about Ireland and Norther Ireland" comments, I merely pointed out, MI5 didn't just restrict it to Ireland. If that didn't fit your narrative then I don't care, but I look beyond my borders. I've lived and travelled beyond them in business and pleasure. Maybe if you tried to include the fact that the Red Roses aren't all in love with this government once in a while rather than just rant it's Scotland v The English most of the time, when, 48% of us hate these twats down here too, you'd maybe get a bit more sympathy. As ritchie has pointed out, I get what you are trying to achieve, I don't always get what or how you're personally trying to achieve it. If you take my comments/arguments personally it's for you to worry about not me,

Hey I call it as I see it. Think you do too but don't give me the shit about not living up there either. I don't, but I work with plenty that do and I hear and discuss their opinions face to face. Beers, neeps 'n' tatties or a ruby murray follow later.

Apart from that, I probably pushed your buttons when I said "you were away with the fairies". Let me expand on that. I maybe should have said any government that "doesn't spy on it's citizens that are politically or otherwise somewhat similalry involved." However, you were taking exception to being involved in the SNP. For you to think members of the SNP should be exempt from this is beyond naiive. MI5 and others will create a file and case history on anyone involved in politics, whether elected or an agitator on the fringes. How deep that file goes depends on how much of a risk they are perceived to be. The SNP may or may not be aware of some of this, but I can guarantee, the Conservative Party at the time were well informed of what MI5 had on Harold Wilson. How is that different to what you are complaining about the SNP?

Do you seriously think nobody in the Just Stop Oil campaign hasn't come across their desk just because they are mostly English with a fondness for glueing their arses to slip roads on the M25?

Do you seriously think they didn't have a file (even if it wasn't active enough) on the nut-job that tried to blow up Edinburgh Airport? Does that go against your "no spying on the Jocks whilst the SNP are in power" lean or wasn't he an SNP member so he's fair game?

Just join the SNP and no matter how big a nut job you are, it's no hold's barred pal, your now free to do what you like? Seriously?

https://www.embassypages.com/city/edinburgh

I may have miscounted, but I make it 44 Foreign Consulates in Edinburgh alone. There will be others elsewhere (Glasgow and Aberdeen for example). Now apart from them stamping passports for visa's and visiting the occassional visitor who got him/her/itself into trouble with the local consabulary, wtf do you think some of the good folk working in these establishments are doing, if not keeping an eye on a few local political nutjobs, should it have an effect on their countries relationships with ours (and I don't just mean Scotland)?

So in your world, you're quite happy for all these countries to have far more intelligence on the (possibly dubious, but possibly just mildy political) residents of Scotland than your own Government? So that's OK then. Glad we cleared that one up.

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Oh and by the way, nothing I said was designed to rile - how you replied was a different matter.

[theo_luddite]

Let me rephrase this in a nutshell 0762

You would apparently rather piss off any support for the SNP from England because it is English, just because it is occassionally critical of what you are doing?