[Devongone]

Oh dear these conspiracy theories don't do any favours to conspiracies.

The Spanish team deserve Oscars if you think they deliberately threw away their lead against Japan. They can pass until the boats sail home, but they have no real strikers. So they deliberately avoided Brazil apparently in order to fall foul of rope-a-dope tactics by Morocco who beat them on merit. In the old days they'd have sent Sergio Ramos up to barge in and head in an equaliser. Just as a bonus they'd played their long-range shooter at centre back - Rodri - who often comes through with a 20 yarder in these circumstances.

Poor refereeing is necessarily endemic at the World Cup, because of the commitment to smaller countries providing officials. I suppose widely different global income levels do therefore increase the risks of corruption. But surely poor managerial decision-making led to most of the surprise results? Have the managers been corrupted by perhaps FIFA? Portugal have played their 4th best keeper throughout, he was fcking up small time till today when he knocked them out, and they've left Leao on the bench every game until too late, dropped Cancelo and allowed Ronaldo to wreak havoc on himself and the team, whilst leaving Bruno Fernandes out there losing possession, mis-controlling the ball and wasting chances. France lost a surprise game because they left put too many first-choice players at once. Spain thought everyone would surrender like Costa Rica and they didn't. Brazil lost to Cameroon because they just did the same things over and over in the knowledge they were already through ........ AND so it goes.

Just as every tackle in which a player goes down screaming is not even a foul, never mind a yellow card, so every surprise result doesn't point to corruption just because you know that there is a lot about FIFA bent more bizarrely out of shape than a Qatari stadium. Surprises happen because fallible human beings are involved, who make poor decisions, under-rate their opposition, over-rate themselves, pick people they like instead of the ones who can play ........ and players make huge blunders under pressure, some never perform and referees get involved deliberately or accidentally in the final result. And so if there is corruption it can hide amidst a sea of the accidental and the cock-up

[theo_luddite]

I'll read that again a few times before I comment Devon, but CR7 showed his class by storming off back to his playpen at the end without shaking anyone graciously by the hand (or throat for that matter). The only team to score against Morocco so far is, er, Canada and despite winning the Concacaf qualifiers they couldn't win a raffle if they'd been buying all the tickets here. Morocco will not be an easy semi-final opponent for either le rouge, blanc et bleu or les rosbif's.

If this turns into a Morocco v Croatia final the bookies won't have to worry about the cost of putting a turkey and all the trimmings on the table on Christmas Day and it so easily could. You read it here first. Yes I've had a beer or two and few glasses of wine - how the hell do you expect me to get through an afternoon of watching Town on the tellybox with England to follow? Lime and soda just doesn't cut it.

[0762]

Yep!! The big story of this World Cup is about Morocco, a team that has only lost only two of their last 43 matches. The first African team to "break the glass ceiling" and get to a World Cup semi-final for the first time after beating a Portugal team suffering from "stage fright", Ronaldo in tears at the end? I didn't think he was capable of crying in this way!! And their next opponent in that semi-final is France after Deschamps' revamped French team (after all those pre-tourney injuries) still had enough to KO England 2-1 with Olivier Giroud "doing the record goal-scoring biz" (a great bullet header past Pickford after scorning a really easy shot in front of England's goal about 20 secs before the goal) while Harry Kane eventually "choked" v his Tottenham captain, Hugo Lloris. MON DIEU! L'ANGLETERRE EST ELIMINE DE LA COMPETITION - THE TROPHY IS NOT COMING HOME FOR ENGLAND AFTER ALL, and the reason for that was the fact that France were the better side. I can't believe a lotta English fans really believing what Southgate was preaching, pre-match, re being respected as serious contenders to win it?????? For starters, not with players like Henderson and Maguire in the side!! Slow and cumbersome build-ups from midfield and where was that game-changing "dynamic" required to really "grab a match by the scruff of the neck" v quality opponents? Not there and all very predictable. Anyway, onwards to a really intriguing match for the French - a semi-final that France and Deschamps will regard as winnable, but it will not be an easy one either v a Morocco team that is defensively solid (and stuffy with it) plus a big scoring threat up front. Experience of being there before, plus Mbappe's presence on their left flank, may well just be enough to get France "over the line".

[ritchiebaby]

I must admit I thought England had a great chance to progress and they nearly did - the usual penalty miss did for them. I didn't see England dominating the second half that some did - shaded it maybe, but no more.

The best laugh of the night was the ITV studio pundits who thought that England wasted the chance, because it was going to be Morocco in the semi-final. They didn't use the word "only" but it was hanging in the air.

Any undue pressure doesn't come from the staff and fans, it comes from the media. For over a week we've heard that if England won against Senegal, then they'd have the chance to beat France and then maybe Portugal for an England v Argentina or Brazil Final. Thinking too far ahead lads. It was the kiss of death once again.

Never mind, it'll give England the chance to win on the 60th Anniversary.

[Devongone]

My expectation was that England would struggle to get past the Group Stages. Who knew Iran would be so destroyed by upheaval at home, they'd roll over? I always thought the USA would beat us, but we knew after such a big win a draw would almost certainly do, so we got it, but weren't worth it. Wales arrived on life-support. Including Ramsey and Bale meant they started with nine men and had left out anyone likely to supply Moore with the ball. Last 16 dawned and as I expected Senegal took us to the cleaners, but after 35 minutes of embarrassment we scored and we shattered their dreams for long enough to build a 3-0 lead and cruise home as if we were good.

Despite all this England arrived at the Quarters, despite having nothing like the strongest team we could select. And the truth is we could have won last night. How an experienced referee from a major country like Brazil can be quite that poor is hard to explain. Upmecano, who is a good centre back, had certainly been told to be first to every ball and let Varane sweep up the bits. He achieved that with Saka by sweeping away his legs. It led to the opening goal which shouldn't have stood with VAR, but we should not have been so open and Pickford as ever succeeded in being unsighted - he does it for Everton too. Normal keepers take half a step to the side they think a shot is likely to come , or simply peer round - Pickford stands still and imagines his reflexes are super-human. Result he's a fraction slow going down and can't reach inside the post before the ball. Again on the second goal Pickford was culpable. Commentators and pundits being amongst nature's idiots will say, when a keeper makes a diving catch, "one for the cameras". That is ollocks! Goalkeeping is about catching as many balls as you can cleanly. Prior to his goal Giroud spun on a volley. It was a good effort, but it was a comfortable height, not that fierce, Pickford got both hands to it well and chose in his usual fashion to push the ball out for a corner. Argentina's keeper would have caught that ball every time, no problem. From the resulting corner England never cleared the ball properly, it came back in and Giroud did his stuff. A goalkeeper's job is wherever possible to end an attack. Catching the ball is perfect but sometimes you can only knock the ball away - if you are clever enough to find one of your own players, you've saved the day. Pickford is showy when he should be safe. Great saves are remembered partly because of their context. Had the corner resulting from Banks's save against Pele been bundled into the net by a relieved Pele no one would have much remember the previous save. Similarly Montgomery against Leeds in the Cup Final was brilliant, but it is particularly vivid because it illustrated Sunderland's impossible victory.

For long periods of the game last night the two best players were Bukayo Saka and Griezeman. Mbappe was dangerous, but you'd have needed more evidence to say he was the best player in world. Hernandez was almost unbelievably poor and if Rabiot is better than Camavinga I will eat any horse the French decided to make palatable. Dembele was surprisingly good without showing the devastating attacking that is meant to be his game. Henderson was Henderson -it's shame Bellingham loves him. Throughout the tournament we cried out for the passing and dead-ball skills of Alexander-Arnold. Luke Shaw resembled his own game, stocky, like an Oxo-cube. If we play Saka, Foden and Kane up front surely we have to tell the other two that they have the same freedom to roam and swap wings that we allow Kane - defenders hate finding themselves up against inter-changing players with different skills, and keepers hate forwards coming from different sides and using the other foot. Maguire didn't do badly, and certainly didn't let Killamarsh and Mosbrough down, but he's not as good a player as Fikayo Tomori. I'd play a back three of Guehi Tomori and Stones, but what do I know?

Whether France were actually better than us is questionable. Lloris certainly outplayed Pickford. Of their back four only Varane looked the part, but they were set up to make him feel good. Kounde looked a centre back and Hernandez looked like a refugee from I'm a Celebrity. In the middle Rabiot is a very hard worker, but he's nowhere near as good as Bellingham and Rice. Up front, yes Mbappe is excellent and potentially even better than that, but Giroud may be ageing like good wine but no man can outrun time, and I wouldn't pick Dembele ahead of Saka or Foden, or Grealish or Mount. But a Griezeman for a Henderson is a Derby winner against handicapper who does quite well at Southwell.

We lost because we missed a penalty. Had we scored we certainly would have tested whether there is a cheese-eating or surrender-monkey element to this French side. Morocco fully-fit could test France to breaking-point, but I fear they will be both depleted and tired for their biggest-ever game. If France hammer them everybody will be handing them the trophy but Croatia could destroy them from the middle of the park and Gvardiol and the defence round him have enough pride to make Mbappe's life difficult. And were it Argentina trotting out for the Final ..... does that French defence look capable of stopping an attack built from Messi, Alvarez, Martinez, Dybala and Angel De Maria? And if Argentina got a lead can you imagine them easily surrendering it short of having two players sent off?

[hibeejim21]

Spot on Ritchie. The arrogance of the pundits really takes the biscuit.

France had a real off night last night and i thought for once Southgate got the tactics right and pressed the French centre backs and was getting a lot of joy from that. But as the game went on i thought the french would find a way to win when Southgate couldn't change it , as all the good sides do... and they did.

Englands record against the top nations is really bad under Gareth in the competitive games. They are good at avoiding banana skins in the groups and qualifiers but they always falter eventually against the top ten sides.

[0762]

IMO England lack that little bit of guile and killer instinct to win big matches and they still lack a proper balance in their team formations as well. I thought that was self-evident in some of their matches. The "curse of the pk miss" really hovers around England like a bad smell. It's something their players will always be aware of for historical reasons plus the pressure from their sycophantic footie media. Lastly, the only good thing about Kane's miss last night was the fact he is white and they avoided another repeat of the despicable racist abuse from many factions of supposed England fans after the Euro Champ final 2021 at Wembley - levelled at all the non-white England players who missed their pks v Italy.

[Devongone]

I don't think France had an off-night. That IS how good they are, especially when a little depleted. If Mbappe manages a worldy display that only papers over the cracks.
Of the other contenders, Croatia have four world class outfield players and a keeper who seems to be playing above himself, but have Championship-level forwards and big hearts covering alongside Gvardiol. Morocco are wonderfully organised in front of a keeper who is stopping everything. They have heart and technical skills, a left back who would die in the cause and Amrabat who is simply Duracell. But like Croatia they should never be in a World Cup Final. Argentina have their excellent keeper behind Romero, Molina and a lot of bravery, in the middle of the park they are decent but still coming together, only up front do they have the capacity to be world class.

My conclusion is that the winners may be the worst team to win for years. None of them have real balance or are capable of providing genuine delight. They can provide flashes only, and you couldn't pick out a player and say, "this is a great player at the very peak of his powers". The best are either going over the hill, or still on the way up.

[0762]

Note the Morocco goalie, Bounou, was awarded the Zamora Trophy recognising him as the best goalie in La Liga. I can see why he was given that trophy now! My main wish is that the trophy is not given to a team that wins a pen kick competition after such a long-drawn-out competition. Hopefully the winner wins the World Cup by playing the best incisive footie that produces match-winning goals outright. No pk shootout please!!

[hibeejim21]

France weren't a "little" depleted though... they were without Konte, Benzema, Fernandez, Pogba, Nkunku and Kimpende. They are still a good side though, and even younger than England but the likes of Dembele, Hernandez, Rabiot and Upamecano in particular had terrible games. Mbappe was anonymous apart from one phase where he absolutely smoked Walker. Giroud is no spring chicken but he is still playing to a high standard in Italy, i enjoy watching him in Seria A. I actually think Deschamps is a bit like Southgate at times, too cautious, and at times it can allow France to lose focus.

France gave away 2 penalties, one of which was mad and the other complete insanity. They were close to giving away 3. No doubt they were horrendous last night, but they have been excellent elsewhere and i expect them to make the final.

I remember both me and devongone pointing out Southgates deficiencies after the Euros in particular Pickford but it seems nothing has changed - just coming back stronger for the next one.