[0762]

The whole subject re the volatile history of Afghanistan is certainly a complex one, but since the infamous 9/11 attack by Al Quaeda on the NY twin towers it became a US/Bush project to try and negate any terrorist threat in the region as well as introducing the whole concept of democratic rule and encouraging the people to embrace a proper democracy and modern cultural change. Well over $1T dollars came out of US coffers to finance this project and try to make it work. Lots of lives (Afghan, US, Brit and others) also lost during this long period of transition in a region where years n years of random conflict have been common for centuries in a country with tribal influence spread throughout the mountain communities/outlying regions. However, a modern democratic state can't be fully evolved in 20 years esp in such a volatile setting where the Taliban had effectively "gone underground" (back to their homes) temporarily when the US military came in after 9/11, "all guns blazing", together with the UK and other western troops. Eg look at S Korea - US troops stationed there since the 1950s. As soon as President Biden announced the US withdrawal, one genuinely feared for the security and well being of the country and its populace. This has now been confirmed in dramatic fashion and the implications for a new generation of Afghan people, embracing democracy and better educated etc, are horrendous in facing a Taliban enemy who will potentially wreak havoc on them and vulnerable groups, women, educated people - a pogrom initiated under a self-proclaimed caliphate forced upon the people they have effectively conquered. And it looks like the west/the world is gonna watch while this horror, a humanitarian disaster, is likely to unfold in the coming weeks/months. I must say I am sitting very uncomfortably in my chair listening to the heartfelt pleas from people within the country who feel like they've been "hung out to dry" while US and Brit military personnel come in to quickly assist in the removal of US/Brit nationals and other "at risk" operatives. There is no doubt their own govt has a lot to answer for in not preparing for such an eventuality, but they can't take all the blame for this. Indeed a huge "finger of blame" could be pointed at an intransigent Taliban enemy that refused to stop killing people and continues to do it as well as a complicit Pakistan govt/security force that has been an able ally to the Taliban down the years albeit sneakily "hovering in the background".
I can't watch a lotta this stuff unfold or listen to the genuine pleas for help from many women (and others) who fear the worst from insurgents who they describe as "animals" - uneducated and ruthless people/thugs with no regard for other people who are "different" from them and their religious ideology.

[St Charles Owl]

I think its a bit of both betrayal and politics gone bad. Even before 9/11 the Russians occupied this fragmented, tribal country to enormous cost in both money and lives of their own and got absolutely nowhere, why Western countries thought it would be any different is beyond me. Trying to create a working and surviving democracy in a country as "backward" as this one is futile, democracies very much survive on everyone having opportunity to thrive or at least have a decent living and this is a country that has so little going for it to be able to adequately sustain its population. It exports virtually nothing since the opium trade was curtailed and it imports one third of its GDP each year.

But I do think Biden is right to get out, its not worth the lives or the money to try to fix something that is likely to be unfixable. Afghanistan needs a leader to emerge, even a dictator would be preferable to the Taliban, someone the West can work with remotely and economically and hopefully pull the country into the 21st Century, but I can't see that happening with the way the Taliban operate such a strict religious ideology. The sort of occupations or police type enforcement by US troops is exactly what the US needs to stop doing, it creates enemies and fosters terrorism and generally achieves little in terms of advancement of the country.

[Lord Snooty]

Our meddling in other people's countries has once again failed. We should now take our responsibilities seriously and aid any refugees who need to flee.

[0762]

The Taliban horde already sweeping into inner areas of the capital, Kabul, as the Afghan President, Ashraf Ghani, seen fleeing the country and following the Deputy President who absconded three days ago. I can understand the need for self-preservation; but it epitomises the questionable history of the weak Afghan leadership and "no backbone" that President Biden previously referred to when he announced the US withdrawal, a withdrawal that was not gradually phased out properly and is a huge criticism of what many Afghans have pleaded/criticised re what appears to be "being hung out to dry". I pray for the huge numbers of fellow human beings who embraced the new democratic model on offer all these years ago and are now on the brink of being subjected to something horrendous that is real and is not the script of a fictitious horror movie.

[hibeejim21]

Pompeo did a deal with the Taliban back in Feb 2020. It was basically a handover. Biden had zero option here.

The provisions of the deal include the withdrawal of all American and NATO troops from Afghanistan, a Taliban pledge to prevent al-Qaeda from operating in areas under Taliban control, and talks between the Taliban and the Afghan government. The US will also dismantle all its military bases.

The afghan government crumbled in less than a week, many of them don't even live there under the laws they introduced. So talks were not required.

Seems to me the only people who have benefitted from the wests "interventions" in the region are oil companies and weapons dealers. They leave behind the same humanitarian disaster in their wake as usual.

[0762]

Yep. The Mujahideen was mentioned in a previous thread and one could could cast a more critical eye back historically to the 70s and 80s when the US started supporting and supplying arms to the Mujahideen because they were enemies of an Afghan government that was allied to the Soviet Union and working towards more democratic governance - the dreaded communist/socialist threat couldn't be tolerated AGAIN. The Russians eventually absconded from the region and the Afghan govt toppled. Remind you of other conflicts where they interfered with countries like this one? Vietnam? Cuba and the trade blockade? Libya? Note they originally financed and supported Saddam Hussein in Iraq!!!! I could go on - no need as the consistency of interfering in other countries affairs is glaring!!

[WakeyTerrier]

20year war all for what?

[themaclad]

Taliban have apparently over 85 billion dollars of American equipment they have more Black Hawk helicopters than 80% of countries in the world and have the biometric identities of every Afghan who has worked for the US in the last 20 years

[0762]

That's apparently why they wanna collaborate/ally with the Chinese who can service a lotta this equipment. It's amazing that they could wantonly lose so much of this valuable military equipment to the Taliban.

[St Charles Owl]

That's apparently why they wanna collaborate/ally with the Chinese who can service a lotta this equipment. It's amazing that they could wantonly lose so much of this valuable military equipment to the Taliban.

To be right the US didn't lose it, this is mainly the equipment that the US gave to the Afghan Government so they could fight the Taliban, instead they just left it when they ran!! It does highlight the folly of what has been going on there for the past 20 years!!

I did read an article about the Blackhawks where is said that they are fairly sophisticated in terms of who is capable and allowed to fly them. They use some sort of biometrics for the pilot so that its not possible for just anyone to jump in and operate it. The Taliban have put out an appeal and amnesty for any Afghan military who can fly them to come forward, without that it seems these will just sit on the ground.