[hibeejim21]

Attacking Salmond like she's doing throughout isn't  a good idea. He avoided that completely. You know if he's so bad why was he such a close friend of yours for 20 odd years ?

No doubt in my mind from the evidence we've seen (and hasn't been redacted or shredded) that she has broken the ministerial code. I mean no one can seriously believe her and her husbands story with a rational mind   The QCs letter yesterday shows the SG has fucked up very badly here.

Also it's clear now after yesterdays evidence that the Aberdein meeting was a SG meeting and would have been minuted, not some casual chit chat in the corridor.

At the very least Evans and Wolffe should be resigning today.

I haven't really been following this at all but do you think this will end in her resigning or will she survive this?

She will front it out until after the elections at least I reckon. This committee is xxxx useless.

As much as I like sturgeon it looks like the evidence is compelling that she used her influence with the civil service and the LA to stitch up Eck. It should be a resigning matter even before you get to the lies to parliament and mysterious memory lapses.... but we live in difficult times and I'm not sure its cutting through with the public in Scotland much.

[BouncingHibees]

Attacking Salmond like she's doing throughout isn't  a good idea. He avoided that completely. You know if he's so bad why was he such a close friend of yours for 20 odd years ?

No doubt in my mind from the evidence we've seen (and hasn't been redacted or shredded) that she has broken the ministerial code. I mean no one can seriously believe her and her husbands story with a rational mind   The QCs letter yesterday shows the SG has fucked up very badly here.

Also it's clear now after yesterdays evidence that the Aberdein meeting was a SG meeting and would have been minuted, not some casual chit chat in the corridor.

At the very least Evans and Wolffe should be resigning today.

I haven't really been following this at all but do you think this will end in her resigning or will she survive this?

She will front it out until after the elections at least I reckon. This committee is xxxx useless.

As much as I like sturgeon it looks like the evidence is compelling that she used her influence with the civil service and the LA to stitch up Eck. It should be a resigning matter even before you get to the lies to parliament and mysterious memory lapses.... but we live in difficult times and I'm not sure its cutting through with the public in Scotland much.

Shes there being accused of lying to Parliament, so far I don't really see how she did, still no clear evidence of that, I'm not so sure she is guilty.

[hibeejim21]

Attacking Salmond like she's doing throughout isn't  a good idea. He avoided that completely. You know if he's so bad why was he such a close friend of yours for 20 odd years ?

No doubt in my mind from the evidence we've seen (and hasn't been redacted or shredded) that she has broken the ministerial code. I mean no one can seriously believe her and her husbands story with a rational mind   The QCs letter yesterday shows the SG has fucked up very badly here.

Also it's clear now after yesterdays evidence that the Aberdein meeting was a SG meeting and would have been minuted, not some casual chit chat in the corridor.

At the very least Evans and Wolffe should be resigning today.

I haven't really been following this at all but do you think this will end in her resigning or will she survive this?

She will front it out until after the elections at least I reckon. This committee is xxxx useless.

As much as I like sturgeon it looks like the evidence is compelling that she used her influence with the civil service and the LA to stitch up Eck. It should be a resigning matter even before you get to the lies to parliament and mysterious memory lapses.... but we live in difficult times and I'm not sure its cutting through with the public in Scotland much.

Shes there being accused of lying to Parliament, so far I don't really see how she did, still no clear evidence of that, I'm not so sure she is guilty.

Well the evidence of Pringle and Hamilton shows she was aware of the allegations before she told parliament and according to them offered to intervene in the issue. And it certainly seems like she knew from even before the Aberdein meeting.

The notion that she just completely forgot about this meeting that contained information of the gravity we know it did is frankly ludicrous. Just as daft as her husband going upstairs to avoid a meeting with Salmond and sturgeon because it was Scottish gov business and not SNP.

She's misled parliament, and the government have obfuscated and stymied an investigation into holding them to account. It's not a good look.

Having the First Minister and Chief Exec of the SNP living together isn't wise for good governance either.

[BouncingHibees]

Attacking Salmond like she's doing throughout isn't  a good idea. He avoided that completely. You know if he's so bad why was he such a close friend of yours for 20 odd years ?

No doubt in my mind from the evidence we've seen (and hasn't been redacted or shredded) that she has broken the ministerial code. I mean no one can seriously believe her and her husbands story with a rational mind   The QCs letter yesterday shows the SG has fucked up very badly here.

Also it's clear now after yesterdays evidence that the Aberdein meeting was a SG meeting and would have been minuted, not some casual chit chat in the corridor.

At the very least Evans and Wolffe should be resigning today.

I haven't really been following this at all but do you think this will end in her resigning or will she survive this?

She will front it out until after the elections at least I reckon. This committee is xxxx useless.

As much as I like sturgeon it looks like the evidence is compelling that she used her influence with the civil service and the LA to stitch up Eck. It should be a resigning matter even before you get to the lies to parliament and mysterious memory lapses.... but we live in difficult times and I'm not sure its cutting through with the public in Scotland much.

Shes there being accused of lying to Parliament, so far I don't really see how she did, still no clear evidence of that, I'm not so sure she is guilty.

Well the evidence of Pringle and Hamilton shows she was aware of the allegations before she told parliament and according to them offered to intervene in the issue. And it certainly seems like she knew from even before the Aberdein meeting.

The notion that she just completely forgot about this meeting that contained information of the gravity we know it did is frankly ludicrous. Just as daft as her husband going upstairs to avoid a meeting with Salmond and sturgeon because it was Scottish gov business and not SNP.

She's misled parliament, and the government have obfuscated and stymied an investigation into holding them to account. It's not a good look.

Having the First Minister and Chief Exec of the SNP living together isn't wise for good governance either.

After today's performance I don't think Nicola has anything to worry about, she was calm and composed and the Unionists on the committee got more and more desperate and now people have seen that there appears to be alot more support for Nicola.

[0762]

Absolutely right! I watched most of this episode unfold today and I agree she was as calm and composed as Salmond was last Friday. She also came over as a genuine contributor to this parliamentary committee. Indeed I commented to my wife that I reckon she would've been a top lawyer or QC instead of being the most reputable politician on these islands with a high global reputation as well. Miss Mitchell's suggestion that Nicola should've intervened to veer towards arbitration was jaw dropping IMO. One big piece of info for me cropped up after 2.30pm when one document revelation showed that Lord Pentland's audit comment condemned Leslie Evans as acting unlawfully and biased in the formal petition. The implication of the role of civil servants in glaring flaws crops up again and again!! Btw the SNP's website hit total meltdown as a massive surge arose in donations and applications to become new SNP members. Anybody surprised esp after observing the outrageous antics last night of DROSS, the bbc and particularly Sarah Smith and the RW scumbags of the Tory press who are clearly complicit with Johnson and his shit heid Brit gov conspirators to bring down our esteemed FM in any way they can do it......all because of forgetting a meeting on 29 March 2019!!!? AND DOING IT DURING A DAMAGING PANDEMIC???? UNFORGIVEABLE!!! Also what a f##### joke compared with all the unlawful and shameless antics of DRoss's paymasters in Westminster like Johnson, Patel, Hancock, Gove and a few others - a bunch of hypocrites with an agenda/conspiracy to "hurt" our Scot FM and damage the Scot indy movement before "paving the way" to shove Brexit down Scottish citizens' throats. Note the bbc didn't even try to hide that Downing Street conspiracy last night on bbc Newsnight - an absolute disgrace that won't be forgotten up here!!!! As for that little Scot Tory minion, DROSS? He was definitely well out of his comfort zone last night and clearly following his fascist masters' instructions. IMO he'll be needing a hiding place soon if he continues "in this vein" against a popular FM!! Be careful what you say Doogie!!

[hibeejim21]

I haven't really been following this at all but do you think this will end in her resigning or will she survive this?

She will front it out until after the elections at least I reckon. This committee is xxxx useless.

As much as I like sturgeon it looks like the evidence is compelling that she used her influence with the civil service and the LA to stitch up Eck. It should be a resigning matter even before you get to the lies to parliament and mysterious memory lapses.... but we live in difficult times and I'm not sure its cutting through with the public in Scotland much.

Shes there being accused of lying to Parliament, so far I don't really see how she did, still no clear evidence of that, I'm not so sure she is guilty.

Well the evidence of Pringle and Hamilton shows she was aware of the allegations before she told parliament and according to them offered to intervene in the issue. And it certainly seems like she knew from even before the Aberdein meeting.

The notion that she just completely forgot about this meeting that contained information of the gravity we know it did is frankly ludicrous. Just as daft as her husband going upstairs to avoid a meeting with Salmond and sturgeon because it was Scottish gov business and not SNP.

She's misled parliament, and the government have obfuscated and stymied an investigation into holding them to account. It's not a good look.

Having the First Minister and Chief Exec of the SNP living together isn't wise for good governance either.

After today's performance I don't think Nicola has anything to worry about, she was calm and composed and the Unionists on the committee got more and more desperate and now people have seen that there appears to be alot more support for Nicola.

Her 'performance' was so confident because the committee has been stymied at every turn by her government and she was able to brazen it out and deny everything. Even day before yesterday they were telling us the legal advice was solid when it quite clearly wasn't going by Dunlop's stinging evidence.

Where are Novembers legal advice papers? They seem to have vanished into the same black hole as some of the huns EBT paperwork.

I want independence as much as you guys but I definitely smell a rat here. Her story just does not add up and it cant just be brushed off as a unionist plot. Its important that our government is accountable and open.

[0762]

I listened to this debate intently through most of yesterday and I think one of the the most defining parts of all the conversations was when the FM responded to a question re her poor, nervy performance on the likes of The Andrew Marr Show and commented that at that time she seriously didn't want to talk about the issue at all and was very uncomfortable with it, such was the disappointment and disbelief of discovering a long-standing friend had definitely "let the side down". Later on she re-affirmed the fact that she and lotsa her colleagues who were cooperating with law officers in their investigations were doing this under a cloud of real disappointment re someone who they regarded very highly as a revered political colleague and NOT AN OPPONENT OR TARGET OF THE SCOT GOVT. At that point one could detect an element of emotion for someone, a friend, who she'd been associated with for over 30 years. That display of genuine emotion does no harm in this kinda debate!! Also she highlighted the political minefield for her personally in saying anything relative to this controversial and unprecedented issue and being careful with what she says in the months ahead - remember our previous views on this Sb board re that awareness of enemies from various quarters who will conspire to bring her down if they get the chance and that is because she is very popular at home and abroad - political opponents like the Tories and associated Unionists don't like what they are seeing and desperation set in a long time ago!! I believe her 100% and understand fully why she opted for no significant involvement in the investigation process and no intervention thereby allowing the judicial process to be progressed and developed by the Permanent Secretary and other civil servants plus it ensured an element of protectionism during such a controversial period of judicial process and review. May I also add I think the Scot govt most certainly would take some precautions to protect themselves from such a controversy that had never happened at this level of govt before and hopefully will never happen again. But that doesn't mean they conspired to bring down Alex Salmond and there was nothing in yesterday's FM dialogue to confirm such skulduggery. As usual, conspiracy theories and "smoke and mirrors" will prevail from people who were not privy to the actions within the Scot govt in assessing the legal case against Ecky and progressing the judicial process to its end conclusion - such is current life when viewing these kinda scandals!!

[ritchiebaby]

Friday was all about Alex and he will make sure it's always all about him. Yesterday it was all about Nicola and she wants to get on with other matters. There's no doubt in my mind that the procedures were perfectly correct, but it was the application of the procedures that was to blame for the current pantomime. The Scottish Government and/or Civil Service were at fault and Nicola made it clear that any such fault could not be laid at her door - it wisnae me, it was a big lad that did it and run away.

The problem for the committee is sorting the wheat from the chaff and only considering the relevant parts of the evidence given.

[hibeejim21]

Way I see it if you 100% believe the FM then you somehow are buying her incredulous story about forgetting the meeting with Aberdein (Ecks staffer) and buying the laughable accounts of both her and her husband about the meetings at her home. I mean c'mon they just are not credible to anyone with the slightest bit of awareness.

Sturgeon can just deny and front this out because her government have obstructed and deceived the committee set up to investigate this at every point, and are STILL doing so. There are huge questions over who set up the March 29th meeting and what was discussed and by whom. That information is required, Aberdein's statement and the November legal advice to be able to form an accurate picture of what happened.

In short I'm not best pleased with the way she and the SG have behaved in all this and its proven highly embarrassing for Scotland. I'm not sure whether she got caught out trying to cover up for eck and had to row back, or that her and hubby saw a way to remove him from the independence debate and it spiralled out of control....Either way not an earthly do I believe her story.

[0762]

She explained the Aberdein situation/meeting yesterday. You either believe it or disbelieve it and I believe it based on the way she presented her account of it and the genuine way she covered the details of it - she didn't come over as a blatant liar in any manner or form - it is as simple as that! However, that doesn't mean her version of events was always totally watertight or even (at times) plausible BUT SHE DID OK, ITEM BY ITEM, UNDER THESE DIFFICULT CIRCUMSTANCES. I can't get inside her head to decipher her memory re a brief rapidly arranged meeting at Holyrood with Jeff Aberdein on 29 March 2019 during a busy day of lotsa meetings and neither can you. Therefore it comes down to either being speculative about it or go along with her account which was that, in fact, she could vaguely recall this brief meeting but it was a prelude to the bigger one with Ecky on 2 April which she vividly remembers due to the enormity of the issue and the political ramifications that would likely ensue. IMO this is an element of all the "he said-she said assertions" that remain from Nicola's day long interview. At the end of the eight hours in the "hot seat", she was able to look the online electorate in the eye and assert that despite all the criticism thrown its way, Scottish democracy does actually work. The committee used Scotland Act powers to demand the legal advice after the SNP's political rivals worked together to create the threat of a no confidence vote. Hence the Scot Parliament managed to check the Scot Govt. For me, the official finger of blame should be pointed at the woman who should've resigned some months ago - BouncingHibees No 1 target Leslie Evans (The Permanent Secretary). But note that contrary to ritchie's comment in thread #548 that "..... Nicola made it clear that any such fault could not be laid at her door.....", she actually commented at about 4.20pm yesterday that she ultimately bore the responsibility as she was effectively the "Head of the Dept/Govt" and the "buck stops at her door". She subsequently apologised re the failure of the judicial process etc etc plus the failure of the process to the women complainants - not quite the "it wisnae me ..." scenario (note she never condemned Evans or any other CS/CO party eg Hardie worthy of blame during her 8 hours of scrutiny!!!!) - REMEMBER WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AN EXISTENTIAL ISSUE POLITICALLY AND IT WAS A SERIOUS ONE!!! Lets be candid re this whole situation - it's been a long, horrible exhausting process and dare I say it - IT MIGHT ALMOST BE OVER AND ABOUT TIME TOO!!!!! And btw not quite the stuff of Banana Republics and for most of the general public that is enough. Also it is time for the SNP (if it has any sense!) to quickly "get its house in order" before the start of the campaign for the Scot election in May and "push on positively" off the back end of a huge positive public response to the FM following all this desperate Unionist/RW media bullshit that has dragged on since the middle of last week!!