[St Charles Owl]

SCO my "bias" is totally based on newspaper headline pages that span as far back as the year "dot". I don't buy any of these newspapers but, scanning through most of the front page headers when visiting a local newsagent, something I do maybe 4-5 times per week, I'd say I'm fairly qualified in gauging the anti Scot indy/hate SNP/hate Scot govt "agenda" in certain headers, some of them implicit and some of them extremely explicit to the point of justified complaint re huge inaccuracies attached to the shit they print. Short of carrying out a detailed thesis on each header per day for months n months, I'm sure you and other Sb members on this board could hazard a decent guess on who are the worst offenders for this kinda shit and it has been going on for years TBF. As for the bbc, my view, for what it is worth, is that the beeb is infected with certain senior Oxbridge people who, on occasions, orchestrate a pro Brit govt agenda on certain chosen progs - some of their shit is subtle, other stuff is plainly outrageous in political content and bias that includes exclusion of critics from certain political parties. Note I'm referring to political infiltration of said bbc BUT not all bbc employees, presenters etc are of that same political persuasion - that was never what was being inferred. However, there is an issue re this type of unhealthy infiltration within this organisation, of that I have no doubt!! And btw may I add that Scotland holds the European record with a massive reduction in reading print media in the past 5 years - a huge drop in Scot readers going anywhere near certain newspapers any more and this trend is far greater than any other country in Europe.

0762, you appear to have taken my post personally or seem to think I directing this solely at you - I wasn't!! I agree with the existence of bias in all media, my point was what we may see as bias, there are plenty on the other side of a debate or topic that see that as being the facts or at least the truth based on what they believe! I would imagine you have been a Scottish independence supporter for many years, so I would expect you to believe any headline that is against independence as being generally wrong, but equally the guy stood next to you who is not a supporter of independence probably looks at these headlines and comes to the opposite conclusion. I think the days of any media carrying no bias at all are gone, we all have opinions and the media by their very nature get to voice those in a free press society. I think your last line sums it up, a lot of people will simply not buy a newspaper if it doesn't support their views, and that is their prerogative but equally a lot of people do continue to read it because of those views.

I am not sure we can have any expectation of the media having no bias, especially on subjects like Brexit or Scot Indy, they have an audience and they will tailor their message to satisfy that audience.

[hibeejim21]

You talk about Labour in Scotland but the thing is Labour in Scotland will only get one maybe two seats in General Elections from now on. I watched a segment on the news back in 2017 during the election and it was asking people in Scotland which way they were going to vote and majority of them said SNP. A lot of the younger generation in Scotland are pro-independence, Nationalistic and don't class themselves as British or unionists. A lot of them won't even remember a Labour Government.

Before 2015, the SNP didn't get into double figures of seats in Westminister and it was because of the 2014 referendum which changed that.

2015 - 56
2010 - 6
2005 - 6

In 2017 they got 35 seats which was down by 21 and in the 2019 election they got 48 which was up 13.

If or when Scotland goes because it's only going to be a matter of time before Scotland does leave the Union and if or when that does happen then it will start a debate with Ireland and a debate with Wales as well.

The question is Matt, how much more do people have to see before thinking 'wait a minute - we can do this better ourselves' ? Post Brexit Westminster is going to be one of the most right wing, English nationalist governments ever. Running a trumpian version of Singapore.

Most Scots are politically centre left. Whats the chances of getting that kind of government now unless we go it alone ? Corbyn nearly pulled it off in 2014 and I likely would have given his coalition a chance but now the tories have an 80 seat majority......

[spireitematt]

You talk about Labour in Scotland but the thing is Labour in Scotland will only get one maybe two seats in General Elections from now on. I watched a segment on the news back in 2017 during the election and it was asking people in Scotland which way they were going to vote and majority of them said SNP. A lot of the younger generation in Scotland are pro-independence, Nationalistic and don't class themselves as British or unionists. A lot of them won't even remember a Labour Government.

Before 2015, the SNP didn't get into double figures of seats in Westminister and it was because of the 2014 referendum which changed that.

2015 - 56
2010 - 6
2005 - 6

In 2017 they got 35 seats which was down by 21 and in the 2019 election they got 48 which was up 13.

If or when Scotland goes because it's only going to be a matter of time before Scotland does leave the Union and if or when that does happen then it will start a debate with Ireland and a debate with Wales as well.

The question is Matt, how much more do people have to see before thinking 'wait a minute - we can do this better ourselves' ?  Post Brexit Westminster is going to be one of the most right wing, English nationalist governments ever. Running a trumpian version of Singapore.

Most Scots are politically centre left. Whats the chances of getting that kind of government now unless we go it alone ? Corbyn nearly pulled it off in 2014 and I likely would have given his coalition a chance but now the tories have an 80 seat majority......

I don't know how much more people have to see before they wake up. I wouldn't call this Government 'English nationalistic' because there are people in England who have had enough of them and want them out. The Tories govern in the party's interest and not the country's interest. It was 2017 that Corbyn nearly pulled it off and he didn't have enough to create a coalition as the Tories were still the largest party. Yes the Tories do have an 80 seat majority but a lot of those seats are in marginals and I have read a lot of the MPs who won seats in 2019 who got elected for the first time in places which were stronghold Labour seats for years are very fearful of their seats at the next election because of the direction the Government is going in.

I can't see Johnson being the leader or PM at the next election in 2023/2024. There is one party which is making a resurgence in British politics and that's the SDP. I've read their policies and I agree with a lot of them and I believe if they were to stand at an election they would win seats as they have sensible left and right wing policies which make sense.

The only problem is politics has become very tribal over the last 5 years and too many people have the 'I'm alright jack' attitude and if they aren't facing hardship then they think no one else is. I think the media, newspapers, political correspondents for certain news channels have a lot to answer for because they don't report the full story they report narratives or only what they want to report.

[hibeejim21]

I wouldn't call this Government 'English nationalistic' because there are people in England who have had enough of them and want them out.


Whats that got to do with it? The Majority clearly do not. Even after the shambles of Covid the majority of English people think the tories have done a good job!! Their style of government undeniably leans towards English nationalism and dog whistle racism. Thats why you got the 'hostile environment' and the windrush disgrace. Thats how you get a PM who called black people 'picanninies' and mocked muslim womens dress.

I'm sure you wouldn't deny UKIP and the EDL are English nationalist? Well you might have noticed they have morphed into the Conservative party. Thats why Tommy Robinson is happy to endorse the party and why UKIP members have gone back to their natural home. There is a reason for that.

Johnson’s every action has been focussed on his Brexit voting “base”, embracing a “single issue” in the context of one nation, England. This is straight out of Trump’s political handbook.

His great hero Churchill on the other hand was far more savvy, he was respectful to the other parts of the UK and displayed an understanding of their national pride. He told De Valera for instance he held no hard feelings over Ireland forming a republic and was in favour of a united Ireland.

[spireitematt]

I wouldn't call this Government 'English nationalistic' because there are people in England who have had enough of them and want them out.


Whats that got to do with it? The Majority clearly do not. Even after the shambles of Covid the majority of English people think the tories have done a good job!!  Their style of government undeniably leans towards English nationalism and dog whistle racism. Thats why you got the 'hostile environment' and the windrush disgrace.  Thats how you get a PM who called black people 'picanninies' and mocked muslim womens dress.

I'm sure you wouldn't deny UKIP and the EDL are English nationalist? Well you might have noticed they have morphed into the Conservative party. Thats why Tommy Robinson is happy to endorse the party and why UKIP members have gone back to their natural home. There is a reason for that.

Johnson’s every action has been focussed on his Brexit voting “base”, embracing a “single issue” in the context of one nation, England. This is straight out of Trump’s political handbook.

His great hero Churchill on the other hand was far more savvy, he was respectful to the other parts of the UK and displayed an understanding of their national pride. He told De Valera for instance he held no hard feelings over Ireland forming a republic and was in favour of a united Ireland.

The majority voted Conservative in December due to Brexit and because they didn't trust Labour or Corbyn. You are saying that the Government is governing mainly in the interests of England but the Tories are governing in their own interests not the country's interest. If people think the Tories have done a good job then they are either blindly loyal or just stupid.

[0762]

Hahhh! Now the mere mention of Churchill's government leads me to compare with Johnson's govt and what the English electorate negligently voted in. Here's the rub: the medical emergency has exposed more than the fact that Johnson is a 3rd rate politician. It has also revealed that behind him stands (or wobbles) a 3rd rate Cabinet! In contrast, Churchill's war Cabinet was stuffed with towering personalities such as Bevin or Beaverbrook who conjured up Spitfires for the Battle of Britain. For advisers, Churchill had Keynes to run the economy, Beveridge to invent the post-war welfare state and Cherwell who had more real science in his pinkie than Cummings will ever comprehend. And while Churchill made glorious speeches, the war was actually won by a trio of top class warlords: Brooke, Portal and Cunningham. Ponder on this question - 75 years from now, will anyone remember smug Dom, Raab, hapless Matt Hancock or crazy Priti Patel? Can you even remember the Sec for Defence????? If this "shower" of chancers is remembered at all,it will be for their dithering and incoherence during a life-threatening plague that they were too incompetent to deal with!! Socially cocooned by their private school, Oxbridge, privileged backgrounds, this Cabinet refused to believe "their England" could fall victim to a foreign plague. Remember immune Johnson in March - deserved what was coming to him and got it!!! What followed after that bordered on criminality! And now we realise we are being governed by over-promoted fools! I weep for England and a huge chunk of the population who are decent and do not share the extreme politics of these morons. Fortunately, north of the border, there is an escape hatch via independence. IMO the Scot FM no longer needs to kowtow to the ludicrous Boris/Cummings cabal. With support rising for independence (and no f###### wonder!), the time has come to exercise the sovereign will of the Scot people to a pt where Scotland is not for turning even if Boris is - most days

[hibeejim21]

I wouldn't call this Government 'English nationalistic' because there are people in England who have had enough of them and want them out.


Whats that got to do with it? The Majority clearly do not. Even after the shambles of Covid the majority of English people think the tories have done a good job!!  Their style of government undeniably leans towards English nationalism and dog whistle racism. Thats why you got the 'hostile environment' and the windrush disgrace.  Thats how you get a PM who called black people 'picanninies' and mocked muslim womens dress.

I'm sure you wouldn't deny UKIP and the EDL are English nationalist? Well you might have noticed they have morphed into the Conservative party. Thats why Tommy Robinson is happy to endorse the party and why UKIP members have gone back to their natural home. There is a reason for that.

Johnson’s every action has been focussed on his Brexit voting “base”, embracing a “single issue” in the context of one nation, England. This is straight out of Trump’s political handbook.

His great hero Churchill on the other hand was far more savvy, he was respectful to the other parts of the UK and displayed an understanding of their national pride. He told De Valera for instance he held no hard feelings over Ireland forming a republic and was in favour of a united Ireland.

The majority voted Conservative in December due to Brexit and because they didn't trust Labour or Corbyn. You are saying that the Government is governing mainly in the interests of England but the Tories are governing in their own interests not the country's interest. If people think the Tories have done a good job then they are either blindly loyal or just stupid.

"You are saying that the Government is governing mainly in the interests of England"


So the tories aren't still ahead in the polls down south ? Of course they are governing mainly in the interests of England. Thats what keeps them in power and thats what they care about.
Why do you think UKIP and Farage were so popular ? Where were they popular ??

We all know the tories were shiteing it that Farage's brand of racism and nationalism was going to keep them out of number 10 so they had to morph all their ideas and policy into the Conservative party so UKIP voters would go back to from whence they came. We all know what their ideas and policies were so let's not kid ourselves on here.

[spireitematt]

I wouldn't call this Government 'English nationalistic' because there are people in England who have had enough of them and want them out.


Whats that got to do with it? The Majority clearly do not. Even after the shambles of Covid the majority of English people think the tories have done a good job!!  Their style of government undeniably leans towards English nationalism and dog whistle racism. Thats why you got the 'hostile environment' and the windrush disgrace.  Thats how you get a PM who called black people 'picanninies' and mocked muslim womens dress.

I'm sure you wouldn't deny UKIP and the EDL are English nationalist? Well you might have noticed they have morphed into the Conservative party. Thats why Tommy Robinson is happy to endorse the party and why UKIP members have gone back to their natural home. There is a reason for that.

Johnson’s every action has been focussed on his Brexit voting “base”, embracing a “single issue” in the context of one nation, England. This is straight out of Trump’s political handbook.

His great hero Churchill on the other hand was far more savvy, he was respectful to the other parts of the UK and displayed an understanding of their national pride. He told De Valera for instance he held no hard feelings over Ireland forming a republic and was in favour of a united Ireland.

The majority voted Conservative in December due to Brexit and because they didn't trust Labour or Corbyn. You are saying that the Government is governing mainly in the interests of England but the Tories are governing in their own interests not the country's interest. If people think the Tories have done a good job then they are either blindly loyal or just stupid.

"You are saying that the Government is governing mainly in the interests of England"


So the tories aren't still ahead in the polls down south ? Of course they are governing mainly in the interests of England. Thats what keeps them in power and thats what they care about.
Why do you think UKIP and Farage were so popular ? Where were they popular ??  

We all know the tories were shiteing it that Farage's brand of racism and nationalism was going to keep them out of number 10 so they had to morph all their ideas and policy into the Conservative party so UKIP voters would go back to from whence they came. We all know what their ideas and policies were so let's not kid ourselves on here.

Polls don't mean anything. Polls are done by asking 1,000 people, those 1,000 people do not represent the electorate, the only difference is the polls influence the way that people vote.

UKIP were popular due to Farage and the fact that they were a one trick pony which was trying to get the UK out of the EU. UKIP split the Labour and the Conservative vote. When UKIP first came about there core base were mainly older people who lived in the South of England and then there vote base attracted working class blue collar workers in Labour towns.

I don't think the Tories were scared of UKIP, they just found them an irritant and a nuisance. You do realise that UKIP were or are Thatcherites? They are a populist party who are right wing and more to the right than the Tories and they are eurosceptic and libertarians. They are now irrelevant and if you look at the 2017 general election there vote share collapsed because it went back to Labour and the Conservatives.

What about SNP? Aren't the SNP a Nationalistic party? The SNP are only popular because they want independence from the UK and want to dissolve the union that's it. I've seen SNP supporters on social media who confuse disagreement with the SNP or Scottish Nationalism as hatred of Scotland which is just untrue. Supporters go on about how they want independence to go their own way and just have one party and that is dangerous and authoritarian, not to mention the sectarianism in the party as well. I've also seen anti-English hatred on social media by so called 'supporters'.

[hibeejim21]

Polls of a thousand don't mean anything but a few nutters on "social media" all of a sudden does eh ? Very good. The polls were spot on last election.

Tommy Robinson was an adviser in UKIP - anyone remotely comparable in the SNP ? Farage was popular in England ? - does anyone comparable in The SNP spew his style of poison ? The SNP is very centre left in political style and has filled the vacuum the Labour Party has left behind. I don't think their popularity is down solely to independence or nationalism either, as a lot of Scots vote for them because they like the politics and their stances on prescriptions,education and health but wouldn't necessarily vote for independence. They are far, far from a one issue party like UKIP. As sturgeon put it herself - "The case for independence does not rest on identity or nationality, but rather on values of social justice, enterprise and democracy. The UK is the fourth most unequal country in the developed world and my contention is that the UK has failed Scotland over the long term" It has a bit more depth than railing against muslims and the bendy banana brigade in Strasbourg no ?

The tories have lurched to the right and the English public are mostly on board. In the middle of a global backlash against racism, Johnson dogwhistles to that favourite obsession of racists: overseas aid. We can hope things change once 'Brexit gets done'. but I have my doubts. Before COVID It’s telling that the biggest public outrage of recent times was KFC running out of chicken.

[Lord Snooty]

Can I just say......I think he's over reacted today by sacking Rebecca Long Bailey for retweeting or sharing (whatever) an interview with Maxine  Peake in th'Independent.
I read the article this morning and also retweeted it. Does that make me anti semitic? Does it hell as like. And neither is she. Or Maxine.
In it she said that U.S. cops got the method of kneeling on necks from the Israeli secret service, which they have denied. Well they would if they're a secret service, wouldn't they? Amnesty International though say it's true. So are they anti semitic as well?
Anyway RLB unshared the article and issued an apology but still got sacked.
This, in my opinion, stinks.