[theo_luddite]

If someone can explain what defunding will achieve that is positive I'll be amazed. I doubt there's a police force in the western world that would claim it is over-resourced in terms of people and finances. One of the reasons some of the racist arseholes that join up are one shift away from murdering people (some already have) is because they can move from State to State after being disciplined and their records of 'misdemeanours' don't seem to follow them. That's the Police Unions that got that through, not a jot to do with overfunding.

As for Farage - well the Brexit vote wasn't in the least bit about race at all was it?

[hibeejim21]

As for Farage - well the Brexit vote wasn't in the least bit about race at all was it?


Absolutely not. It was all about freeing ourselves from the shackles of Brussels and its overbearing red tape

[0762]

Just to add insult to injury Mr Brexit himself, Nigel Farage, was on tv this morning describing the 'Black Lives Matter' movement as like the Taliban and a "Marxist organisation". This is the mentality behind Brexit, and the thinking of the people who are working Boris behind the scenes. They don't give a xxxx, just get him to lie through his teeth to the people.

UN: Austerity has caused worrying levels of child poverty in the UK.
Tories: Nah we don't accept that.

Irish President: You are risking a border between NI and the UK in the Irish Sea.
Tories: Nah we don't accept that.

ONS: UK has the highest death rate from covid outside the US.
Tories: Nah we don't accept that.

UK people: Cummings has broken the lockdown!!!
Tories: Nah we don't accept that.

And on and on and on it goes. Gaslighting on a massive scale. Whats really happening here is the final stages of the tory rollback of Atlee's post war consensus. In its place ? well crumbs from Trumpo's table. Probably GM crumbs too. Starting off by making our food industry compatible with the USA and incompatible with Europes and the introduction of US Pharma and big business into the NHS.

The people of this country are in for one helluva reality check.

Add to the "Nah we don't accept that", the regular Tory govt practice of not providing any govt spokesperson for comment re any controversial issue - regular as clockwork on the likes of the bbc or other tv news channels with a brief comment, "We asked for a response from the govt but NOBODY WAS AVAILABLE FOR COMMENT"!!? The Tories have cynically been practising in this way for months and I have no doubt this line has been set out by that devious little lying, shitheid SPAD called Cummings.

[0762]

Johnson comments in parliament today - AMERICA IS A BASTION OF PEACE!! Not one criticism of that lunatic Trump eh! Go back in your box PM and don't bother coming out again until sanity finally prevails in the stuff that comes outa your "big mouth"!!

[hibeejim21]

Listening to this fuckwit is not so much a car crash anymore, its more akin to a motorway pile up.  

Out of his depth on a damp floorcloth.

[ritchiebaby]

It truly amazes me how people can get themselves worked up about a statue of some xxxx monster being hauled down, or some hoodies being looted from H and M but go straight to the next page when it comes to black people being murdered by police or discriminated against.

Its 2020 for gods sake.

I totally agree with your sentiments on this, but a line has to be drawn somewhere and it's just before violence kicks in. I can't think that anyone believes that racism will diminish when violence is used. In fact violence will only lead to even more entrenched extreme positions. Hauling down a statue does no good in the long run - it's a good photo opportunity, no more.

Much of Bristol's prosperity over the centuries was based on the slave trade, as were many British cities' wealth because of the cotton trade, a prime user of slaves. Perhaps we should be boycotting the clothing industry to make a stand against racism. British Imperialism was responsible for the parliament/transport/education systems in many emerging democracies in what used to be called "The Third World". Perhaps we should be tearing up railway lines in these countries as a protest againt British Imperialism.

Forced arranged marriages, female genital mutilation, modern slavery are all practiced in BAME communities - all conveniently ignored in the current BLM frenzy. The last country to officially abolish slavery was an African country - within the last 50 or 60 years. So what, let's all blame the UK for it's part.

Finally, the USA had a black President for 8 years and it made absolutely no difference to racist attitudes in the US. It'll take decades of hard work and tolerance to reduce racism, never mind erase it.

Black Lives DO Matter, as do all others.

[St Charles Owl]

It truly amazes me how people can get themselves worked up about a statue of some xxxx monster being hauled down, or some hoodies being looted from H and M but go straight to the next page when it comes to black people being murdered by police or discriminated against.

Its 2020 for gods sake.

I totally agree with your sentiments on this, but a line has to be drawn somewhere and it's just before violence kicks in. I can't think that anyone believes that racism will diminish when violence is used. In fact violence will only lead to even more entrenched extreme positions. Hauling down a statue does no good in the long run - it's a good photo opportunity, no more.

Much of Bristol's prosperity over the centuries was based on the slave trade, as were many British cities' wealth because of the cotton trade, a prime user of slaves. Perhaps we should be boycotting the clothing industry to make a stand against racism. British Imperialism was responsible for the parliament/transport/education systems in many emerging democracies in what used to be called "The Third World". Perhaps we should be tearing up railway lines in these countries as a protest againt British Imperialism.

Forced arranged marriages, female genital mutilation, modern slavery are all practiced in BAME communities - all conveniently ignored in the current BLM frenzy. The last country to officially abolish slavery was an African country - within the last 50 or 60 years. So what, let's all blame the UK for it's part.

Finally, the USA had a black President for 8 years and it made absolutely no difference to racist attitudes in the US. It'll take decades of hard work and tolerance to reduce racism, never mind erase it.

Black Lives DO Matter, as do all others.

I agree with most of that. The one thing I would say about these monuments is that we cannot erase what happened in the past, but at the same time we have to be honest about the things the person in the monument did, both good and bad. If they invented something that aided society then mention it, but at the same time if their wealth came from slavery mention that as well. Over here its a little different, the statues being torn down here are the ones of Confederate Generals, a group of men who committed treason against the US and ultimately lost, you don't memorialise people like that in the country that defeated them!!! There is no Yamamoto statue at Pearl Harbour for very good reasons!!!

8 years of a black President did make a difference, unfortunately the next President was the polar opposite of Obama and as a consequence of his rhetoric he has stirred a racist base up again that admittedly hadn't gone but had been forced by public pressure and by moral norms to become silent, we have now have nearly 4 years of them being emboldened again coupled with a Republican Party who have left their morals at home so that they do not encounter the wrath of Trump!!

[0762]

To these initial comments re such statues that are so strongly linked to slavery and the slave trade, may I add that in Edinburgh there is a statue of one Henry Dundas (on a tall pillar) who played a significant role in delaying the abolition of the slave trade on these islands. Officials of The City of Edinburgh Council have decided to erect a plaque describing the man and his involvement in such negative activities. In other words, we can't erase these individuals from our history but we can at least educate future generations re the darker side of these people and how they made their money on the back end of the suffering and, on occasions, killing/murder of slaves. I'm guessing that this practise will be "rolled out" at other similar sites in Edinburgh and subsequently ensuring a positive educational element is in order.

[St Charles Owl]

To these initial comments re such statues that are so strongly linked to slavery and the slave trade, may I add that in Edinburgh there is a statue of one Henry Dundas (on a tall pillar) who played a significant role in delaying the abolition of the slave trade on these islands. Officials of The City of Edinburgh Council have decided to erect a plaque describing the man and his involvement in such negative activities. In other words, we can't erase these individuals from our history but we can at least educate future generations re the darker side of these people and how they made their money on the back end of the suffering and, on occasions, killing/murder of slaves. I'm guessing that this practise will be "rolled out" at other similar sites in Edinburgh and subsequently ensuring a positive educational element is in order.

I posted on FB the other day with that as an idea. These people were in some sense a product of their time, they were no different to virtually all their peers and conformed with society as it existed at that time. Time has moved on, we should recognise them for what they achieved but also be prepared to point out their transgressions as well. Well done to the City of Edinburgh.

[hibeejim21]

It truly amazes me how people can get themselves worked up about a statue of some xxxx monster being hauled down, or some hoodies being looted from H and M but go straight to the next page when it comes to black people being murdered by police or discriminated against.

Its 2020 for gods sake.

I totally agree with your sentiments on this, but a line has to be drawn somewhere and it's just before violence kicks in. I can't think that anyone believes that racism will diminish when violence is used. In fact violence will only lead to even more entrenched extreme positions. Hauling down a statue does no good in the long run - it's a good photo opportunity, no more.

Much of Bristol's prosperity over the centuries was based on the slave trade, as were many British cities' wealth because of the cotton trade, a prime user of slaves. Perhaps we should be boycotting the clothing industry to make a stand against racism. British Imperialism was responsible for the parliament/transport/education systems in many emerging democracies in what used to be called "The Third World". Perhaps we should be tearing up railway lines in these countries as a protest againt British Imperialism.

Forced arranged marriages, female genital mutilation, modern slavery are all practiced in BAME communities - all conveniently ignored in the current BLM frenzy. The last country to officially abolish slavery was an African country - within the last 50 or 60 years. So what, let's all blame the UK for it's part.

Finally, the USA had a black President for 8 years and it made absolutely no difference to racist attitudes in the US. It'll take decades of hard work and tolerance to reduce racism, never mind erase it.

Black Lives DO Matter, as do all others.

And if those uppity blacks just hadn’t looted all those shops or burnt all those cars - all of those police officers would probably have been charged and already in prison by now, right? Sure.

Thats the heart of the problem right there.

The other issues you seem to be conflating with racism are more to do with islam than anything else. Im not sure thats relevant to this. Hauling down a statue might just be photo opp, but its certainly got more people talking about the subject and learning about our history with slavery up and down the UK than ever before. A lot more folk will know about Colston now than before. Thats a real step in the right direction.