[spireitematt]

The leaked report that Keir Starmer attempted to "bin" in the quest for unity within the Labour Party has spectacularly revealed what we had suspected all along. The relentless media antisemitism campaign against the shadow cabinet was sustained and orchestrated. Without a satisfactory conclusion, those with genuine grievances felt they were not being listened to. The comments revealed in the report, taken from texts, were couched in the most appalling language towards individuals in Corbyn's shadow cabinet. They hated Corbynistas so much that their preference was a right-wing Tory govt in power rather than Corbyn in Downing Street. Abandoning the poor and the most vulnerable in our society for the sake of internecine politics of the worst kind has rightly been exposed! One wonders how long Starmer can keep the Labour Party together??

You are about 3 weeks behind 0762.

A lot of the membership are very very angry. Now we all know why Starmer kept quiet about his private donors in the leadership election as well. Labour are moving towards the centre like the Lib Dems or you could say Tory-lite to appeal to the electorate. Starmer and Co seem to be appealing to the middle class, London centric, Pro EU types.

People who were named in the report are apparently suing and it could bankrupt Labour.

I just feel so dejected with politics and everything which is going on. I feel like there is no real opposition in this country. The media aren't holding the Government to account and instead seem to be the cheerleaders and the Government and the Tories can do no wrong in the eyes of the electorate, I feel like we're becoming like America as there are people in Britain calling those of different political views 'Losers' or 'You lost so get over it'. They've even started saying that any report or article critising the Government or the Tories is fake news, it's all gone a bit Orwellian or you could say 'Trumpian' and 1984.

It makes you wonder how bad it has to get for there to be a change of Government. We've had 10 years of Tory rule come May. I was talking to someone a few months ago who didn't like the Tories under May or Cameron but he voted Tory in 2019 because he liked Johnson and he told me that this current Government will be different to May's or Cameron's and he didn't seem to grasp that it's still the same party.

[St Charles Owl]

Finally a Labour leader who recognises that elections are not won on the fringes but in the middle, and the middle of the UK electorate is not as far left as Labour have become. Labour need to appeal to the electorate, they need to evolve and adapt or else the Tories will win time after time.

[hibeejim21]

The leaked report that Keir Starmer attempted to "bin" in the quest for unity within the Labour Party has spectacularly revealed what we had suspected all along. The relentless media antisemitism campaign against the shadow cabinet was sustained and orchestrated. Without a satisfactory conclusion, those with genuine grievances felt they were not being listened to. The comments revealed in the report, taken from texts, were couched in the most appalling language towards individuals in Corbyn's shadow cabinet. They hated Corbynistas so much that their preference was a right-wing Tory govt in power rather than Corbyn in Downing Street. Abandoning the poor and the most vulnerable in our society for the sake of internecine politics of the worst kind has rightly been exposed! One wonders how long Starmer can keep the Labour Party together??

What was even more shocking was the sabotage job done on Corbyns campaign in 2017 by staff in his own party, thus denying millions of British people a chance of improved living conditions.

Oh and the disgraceful treatment of their black MPs like Dianne Abbott who while crying in the toilets after receiving death threats was being laughed at by labour staffers who were briefing channel 4 news of her whereabouts.

[0762]

Finally a Labour leader who recognises that elections are not won on the fringes but in the middle, and the middle of the UK electorate is not as far left as Labour have become.  Labour need to appeal to the electorate, they need to evolve and adapt or else the Tories will win time after time.

Tony Blair anyone!!!!!!? And we all know how that ended up eh plus the Blairite infiltration of Corbyn's Labour Party as "touched on" by Jim! It is unfortunately called British establishment politics as described in a previous thread and as previously summed up by yourself SCO - the two party politics system but one must emphasise that the Labour Party have never won many GE's since the 1960s! Indeed, go back a century and observe the same trend in England!! Nothing changes for the better and that is one of the main reasons why I, and many more free-thinking Scots like myself (who don't vote for elected Westminster govts!!!), wanna see an independent Scotland as soon as practically possible - the decades of political intransigence have passed and lotsa of us have "seen the light" and "moved on" to a better political vision for the future of our country and our people. We can do so much better than being stuck in this entrenched Westminster political "trough"/confrontation and that is a fact. However, we'll keep that quest on "hold" for the time being and remain apolitical during this period of crisis.

[St Charles Owl]

Yes, Tony Blair if you like. Labour needs to win an election if it wants to make changes to the way the country is run, and putting up candidates from the left of the party will see them continue to lose. What more important, appealing to the middle ground or having Tory government after Tory government?? Its no different to the choice the Yanks have, go with Bernie and lose or go with a more moderate Biden and have a shot at winning in November. Make changes from a position of power not opposition!!

[spireitematt]

Finally a Labour leader who recognises that elections are not won on the fringes but in the middle, and the middle of the UK electorate is not as far left as Labour have become.  Labour need to appeal to the electorate, they need to evolve and adapt or else the Tories will win time after time.

The Lib Dems are centrists and that's not working out very well for them is it? Labour need to be a Centre Left party like they were under Attlee, Wilson, Callaghan, Brown etc. They can't be too far left like Michael Foot was. Moving towards the Centre and Centre Right like under Blair won't get them to win a General Election as people will compare them to Blair. Labour need to be Centre Left when it comes to economics and spending but they need to be small c Conservatives on social policy.

It's 10 years since Labour were last in power and it's been 12-13 year since the financial crash and the media and people out there still keep going with the lie that Labour caused a global recession. For Labour to win power they need a responsible fiscal policy, they need to go back to basics and talk about education, health, jobs, public ownership, investment in public services and infrastructure, transport, greener energy etc etc. They also need to be more patriotic as well and talk up Britain as a whole and have a clear vision of what they want Britain to be or look like. If Labour keep harping on about Brexit and rejoining the EU for the next 4-5 years then they are going to get absolute thrashed at the next election worse than 2019. They need to get out of London and they need to talk about the different regions and that includes Scotland and Wales. They need to look at investment in areas outside of London and look at better transport links for rural areas as well.

But instead they won't, they will keep repeating the same mistakes over and over and over again, thinking they know best and better than the electorate. For them to win again they need to look at why they've lost 4 elections in a row and they need to get out to every City, Town and Village in the country and ask the electorate what they want.

[hibeejim21]

Yes, Tony Blair if you like.  Labour needs to win an election if it wants to make changes to the way the country is run, and putting up candidates from the left of the party will see them continue to lose.  What more important, appealing to the middle ground or having Tory government after Tory government??  Its no different to the choice the Yanks have, go with Bernie and lose or go with a more moderate Biden and have a shot at winning in November.  Make changes from a position of power not opposition!!

I get what you're saying, I think any kind of labour government will do right now and would be better. But.

That then turns into hold yer nose and vote for the least worst option. My take is that if we continually let the 'good guys' away with being a minor, gradual change from the 'bad guys', they have no incentive to improve and never will. They'll only offer you slightly better terms, not the opportunity for something far greater. Force them to move away from dishing up more of the same though, and you might get something better for everyone.

Thats the problem with labour now, most of the votes they need to win over are quite happy to vote tory, and likely will do again. And they aren't 'centrists' I don't think, the working class in England is fairly right wing and nationalist I think. The 'centrist' parties remember picked up less than half of the votes than corbyn did at the last election.

For what its worth I don't think JC was too far off the mark policy wise, and his successor should note that. Just try and deliver the message better, and take the tories to bits in parliament. I think Starmer can do that, but if he ends up trying to be another Nick Clegg they are likely finished for the next generation of voters.

[St Charles Owl]

Completely agree Jim with your post. It has to start somewhere and that might not be your favorite candidate nor someone who will do exactly what you want them to do but establishing core values that appeal to more people is what Labour have failed to do over the last decade.

[spireitematt]

Starmer has got a lot of people confused and wondering what is going on. At PMQs today he praised the Tories and the Government of their handling of Covid-19 on social distancing and critical care capacity.

[0762]

Yep! I briefly watched that poor performance Matt and wondered why the sudden change in serious scrutiny of a Brit govt strategy and damaging policies that deserve to be criticised in the proper way.