[St Charles Owl]

Their problems run an awful lot deeper than 'woke left' ideology. For a start labours core vote is split between 2 camps that have completely different priorities and want entirely different things on a whole host of issues.

The democrats problems are more complex, but neither are helping themselves with infighting at the moment.

I think you have nailed the main problem the Dems have over here, candidates trying to pander to voters on each end of the party who actually want different things!!! They are not actually in-fighting as such, the process to choose their candidate will always cause division and provide ammunition to the opposition, its always a problem for the party who have to pick a candidate from many options. Trump did such a good job of trashing his opponents very early on when he was in the primary, the Dems are desperately trying to look united but in reality they believe in different things.

[0762]

Their problems run an awful lot deeper than 'woke left' ideology. For a start labours core vote is split between 2 camps that have completely different priorities and want entirely different things on a whole host of issues.

The democrats problems are more complex, but neither are helping themselves with infighting at the moment.

Maybe they should split into two different political parties then eh! One of them naturally being the Socialist Labour Party and the other one possibly being the Tony Blair "reinvented" red tory party.

[hibeejim21]

I get what you are saying but they do that and they will never win power again. And I think a strong Labour Party in England is essential for Scotland if we Gain independence.

I actually think someone like Starmer stands the best chance of uniting the party. Corbynism is over and the 'hard left' are actually quite small in number. Most members were drawn to Corbyn because they wanted socialism and radical politics, not because they agreed with his views on Europe or a lot of things.

Starmer reminds me of Blair a little when he got elected, speak radical and keep as broad a support as you can. He hasn't given long Bailey a chance to attack him for not being left enough either. So far he has avoided any divisive public position that would lose him votes. Thats how you win leadership elections, it shows he at least has a brain which is a major plus when you see the other candidates.

[spireitematt]

I get what you are saying but they do that and they will never win power again. And I think a strong Labour Party in England is essential for Scotland if we Gain independence.

I actually think someone like Starmer stands the best chance of uniting  the party. Corbynism is over and the 'hard left' are actually quite small in number. Most members were drawn to Corbyn because they wanted socialism and radical politics, not because they agreed with his views on Europe or a lot of things.

Starmer reminds me of Blair a little when he got elected, speak radical and keep as broad a support as you can. He hasn't given long Bailey a chance to attack him for not being left enough either. So far he has avoided any divisive public position that would lose him votes. Thats how you win leadership elections, it shows he at least has a brain which is a major plus when you see the other candidates.

If RLB is elected then 'Corbynism' will continue. You have to remember the members will vote next on who they want to be leader and at the moment Starmer is leading in the polls for the membership but no one knows who the registered supporters will vote for. When Labour brought in the £3 vote back in 2015 a lot of Tory voters signed up to vote for Corbyn then in 2016 Labour brought in the £25 fee when he was being challenged by Owen Smith. The question is will people who dislike Labour pay the £25 fee this time to vote for RLB or Emily Thornberry?

[hibeejim21]

Me and my wife watched the C4 leadership debate, and the mrs has no interest in politics or any horse in the race so to speak.....but she felt Lisa Nandy was by far the most comfortable in that style of debate and i had to agree. She performed well.

Starmer isn't very charismatic or even a particularly good speaker, but he is a 'safe pair of hands' and you can tell he really had thought his responses through.

RLB came across as quite a warm person, was relaxed and confident but she would be torn apart by the tory machine

[spireitematt]

Me and my wife watched the C4 leadership debate, and the mrs has no interest in politics or any horse in the race so to speak.....but she felt Lisa Nandy was by far the most comfortable in that style of debate and i had to agree. She performed well.

Starmer isn't very charismatic or even a particularly good speaker, but he is a 'safe pair of hands' and you can tell he really had thought his responses through.

RLB came across as quite a warm person, was relaxed and confident but she would be torn apart by the tory machine

The problem Labour have at the minute is the arguments on self ID. Lisa Nandy's comments the other day at a hustings and RLB's comments on the Marr Show on Sunday have upset female members and potential voters.

[0762]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-52164158

And so it comes to pass that Sir Keir Starmer is unsurprisingly announced as the new leader of the Labour Party. IMO it's a pity re his "sir" title as I'm not into that royal recognition nonsense at all and never will be but he always was the logical choice. I notice that up here in Scotland a non-entity of a woman/Scot Labour MSP named Jackie Baillie, from the Argyll and Bute region of Scotland, has been announced as the Deputy leader of the Scot Labour Party. Scot Labour members have deserted the Scot Labour Party in their droves and this latest unimpressive appointment will just "open the floodgates" of derision and desertion from a political party that deserves exactly what it is getting from its past members/backers. Nae clout, nae status or reputation whatsoever and nae proper leadership either!!!

[hibeejim21]

Starmer doesn't use the title personally to be fair. But aye, he is the smart choice. A very intelligent man who faces a huge challenge to take the party forward and to appeal across the UK again.

By the way I have no time for Baillie politically and don't see her as a leader, but I can vouch that she is a very warm, decent person personally away from politics. I've seen evidence of that with my own eyes.

[0762]

It is Baillie's history of some really crass and biased anti indy and pro WMD comments down the years that really incensed me to the point I just regard her as another non-entity of a Labour MSP (one of many!) who is just following the party line and always comes over as "playing political games" and been shown up on countless occasions in the parliamentary chamber to the point where she had literally become "invisible". She should be nowhere near that Deputy Leader position and that is a fact. Imagine it - Baillie alongside her unimpressive Labour leader, Richard Leonard!!! It certainly suits the Scottish independence movement to place them alongside the devastated Scottish Tories up here!! They deserve each other TBF and long may it continue while support for Scot indy, albeit naturally on hold at the mo, will continue to strengthen.

[hibeejim21]

I don't agree with her politically particularly, but some relatives of mine were very grateful for the help she gave them. She's a pretty good local MSP.

Interesting to see Starmer got the votes across the labour left, a lot of ex Corbyn supporters voted for him, as did the registered supporters. He now has the mandate to make the changes he wants to the party. That has already started with the NEC winners from the ballot, they are most definitely not 'corbynites'.

He is going to have to do a ' Harold Wilson' to a large degree and keep the left happy but he also has leeway to take the party more to the centre ground where he needs to.