[hibeejim21]

"Because she understood the electorate and understood why people voted Leave in the Referendum, she also warned Labour about a 2nd referendum stance yet she was ignored and look what happened. "


Or maybe she just voted with the tories so many times the people in her seat thought they might as well get the real thing and cut to the chase......We've done this to death now, you know full and well labour couldn't possibly have supported Brexit openly so it was down to her own choice in the end. I wouldn't say she is any great loss to the party.

Other MPs warned against a 2nd vote and kept their seats, Lisa nandy being one..... If flint had stood she wouldn't have made it past round one, because the labour membership is predominately pro-remain...As are most of the unions. Nandy at least tried to strike a balanced argument instead of blindly following the brexit vote.

Emily thornberry was not 'close to corbyn' either. She had been sidelined in the house by corbyn in favour of RLB after she clashed with him one time too many. Personally I think starmer will win, and he will be better at keeping the various strands of the party together than corbyn was...but he is probably going to need 2 terms to sort the party out.

---

"If there was a real Brexit plan and there were proper contingency plans in place then Brexit could work "


If my auntie had balls she would be my uncle.

Brexit isn't about leaving the EU and making things 'work' matt. Thats the mistake we were all making, trying to understand some logic behind it. Nor was there any prospect of the EU standing by and allowing their market to be undermined - why the xxxx should they ?

It's an old fashioned, right wing money/power grab with the profits stashed off shore. Joe public will just have to take whatever shit gets thrown its way.

[0762]

I'll add that it is the biggest conspiracy of all time in British political history and I could SCREEEAAAAMMMMMM re the lack of proper scrutiny and formal investigation/condemnation of the whole period that covers the Brexit ref 2016 to the present - a f###### joke!!! As Jim has previously said: It has been "done to death" on this board and there is very little else to be said - A F####### FARCE!!!!

[hibeejim21]

I'll add that it is the biggest conspiracy of all time in British political history and I could SCREEEAAAAMMMMMM re the lack of proper scrutiny and formal investigation/condemnation of the whole period that covers the Brexit ref 2016 to the present - a f###### joke!!! As Jim has previously said: It has been "done to death" on this board and there is very little else to be said - A F####### FARCE!!!!

Every study, expert and intelligent person knows brexit will detrimentally impact our economy and standing in the world. Its not really up for debate.

Just because uninformed and misled people voted for it, doesn’t mean their reckless stupidity should be pandered to.

[spireitematt]

"Because she understood the electorate and understood why people voted Leave in the Referendum, she also warned Labour about a 2nd referendum stance yet she was ignored and look what happened. "


Or maybe she just voted with the tories so many times the people in her seat thought they might as well get the real thing and cut to the chase......We've done this to death now, you know full and well labour couldn't possibly have supported Brexit openly so it was down to her own choice in the end. I wouldn't say she is any great loss to the party.

Other MPs warned against a 2nd vote and kept their seats, Lisa nandy being one..... If flint had stood she wouldn't have made it past round one, because the labour membership is predominately pro-remain...As are most of the unions. Nandy at least tried to strike a balanced argument instead of blindly following the brexit vote.

Emily thornberry was not 'close to corbyn' either. She had been sidelined in the house by corbyn in favour of RLB after she clashed with him one time too many. Personally I think starmer will win, and he will be better at keeping the various strands of the party together than corbyn was...but he is probably going to need 2 terms to sort the party out.

---

"If there was a real Brexit plan and there were proper contingency plans in place then Brexit could work "


If my auntie had balls she would be my uncle.

Brexit isn't about leaving the EU and making things 'work' matt. Thats the mistake we were all making, trying to understand some logic behind it. Nor was there any prospect of the EU standing by and allowing their market to be undermined - why the xxxx should they ?

It's an old fashioned, right wing money/power grab with the profits stashed off shore. Joe public will just have to take whatever shit gets thrown its way.

She is not a Tory and if you realise there is two lobbies the aye lobby and the noe lobby, there isn't a Tory lobby or a Labour lobby.

The Don Valley which was her constituency has been Labour ever since the seat existed in 1918 until now. Caroline Flint campaigned for Remain but the Don Valley voted in favour of leave and she excepted that but because Labour sat on the fence and tried to be all things to all people. The remain voters thought Labour was a leave party and the leave voters thought Labour was a remain party. In the end the Don Valley voted Conservative because they wanted to get Brexit over and done with as have a lot of former mining towns in the country.

You don't have to tell me that the Labour membership is pro-remain I already know but the thing is membership doesn't win elections but voters do. The next leader will be the candidate that Corbyn and Momentum get behind.

Starmer is the only one who currently stands out for me and he will very likely get my vote.

[hibeejim21]

"In the end the Don Valley voted Conservative because they wanted to get Brexit over and done with as have a lot of former mining towns in the country."


So what if they were former mining towns ? That's irrelevant.

It was all about the gormless, selfish ignorance of people who didn't want to understand even the basic economic and social consequences of Brexit.

Bought off by lies, slogans and endless anti-EU and anti-immigrant propaganda from a dishonest Tory media.

The tories are so right wing now that they’ve subsumed UKIP, BxP, Britain First, and the EDL voters into their hard Brexit, right wing, jamboree.

The only thing that's going to get 'done' by brexit is the working class turncoats that put an Etonian lying turd into power.... en masse as well.

The leavers left Labour, so maybe Labour needs to leave them to their dystopian shit show.

[spireitematt]

"In the end the Don Valley voted Conservative because they wanted to get Brexit over and done with as have a lot of former mining towns in the country."


So what if they were former mining towns ?  That's irrelevant.

It was all about the gormless, selfish ignorance of people who didn't want to understand even the basic economic and social consequences of Brexit.

Bought off by lies, slogans and endless anti-EU and anti-immigrant propaganda from a dishonest Tory media.

The tories are so right wing now that they’ve subsumed UKIP, BxP, Britain First, and the EDL voters into their hard Brexit, right wing, jamboree.

The only thing that's going to get 'done' by brexit is the working class turncoats that put an Etonian lying turd into power.... en masse as well.

The leavers left Labour, so maybe Labour needs to leave them to their dystopian shit show.

No it is relevant because a lot of the former mining towns and village pits were dyed in the wool Labour. Either the demographics of these places have changed or the people who lived there voted Leave and for the Conservatives because they feel like they've got nothing to lose as they have nothing there to begin with. There has been no investment in these places and for nearly 30 years and the steel works, coal mines have gone and these places have been left behind while everywhere else in the UK and the South have had investment and regeneration.

The leave voters haven't left Labour though. People who voted Leave and voted Conservative in the General Election just gone was to get on with Brexit. They will come back to Labour once Labour have a good leader and sensible policies. If Labour ditch the voters who voted Leave in the referendum like you suggest then they will never get elected ever again so that is just stupidity.

Anyway you keep going on about how Scotland will leave the UK in there 2nd indy referendum and rejoin the EU and live wonderfully with the SNP, so won't really affect you if you are so sure that is what will happen.

[hibeejim21]

"There has been no investment in these places and for nearly 30 years and the steel works, coal mines have gone and these places have been left behind while everywhere else in the UK and the South have had investment and regeneration. "

Who's been in power for the majority of those 30 years ? Vote for them! That will show them!!


"People who voted Leave and voted Conservative in the General Election just gone was to get on with Brexit. "


Then they really are monumentally thick, this is going to rumble on for years and years and years.... Well into the next election where they could very likely double down on their "taking back control" and vote tory again rather than admit they were wrong.


Anyway you keep going on about how Scotland will leave the UK in there 2nd indy referendum and rejoin the EU and live wonderfully with the SNP.


Funny cos I grew up in a ex mining town, in a council estate, In a seat that has nearly always been labour but my community didn't vote for brexit. Odd that isn't it ? They certainly wouldn't be voting tory either under any circumstances, and if labour hadn't sided with the tories in the referendum they probably would still be voting labour.

So aye, I don't really see much point in the UK currently.

[0762]

Hear hear! I think it must be emphasised AGAIN how very different the politics of Scotland and England have become!!! The attitudes and behaviour of huge swathes of the English electorate re Brexit are so startling in the fact it is politically illiterate with no substance attached to many of the arguments that were presented - a shocker!! One of the common clichés that I acknowledge and previously mentioned by Matt was, "I've got nothing to lose" DOHHHHHHH!!!!?? FFS!! So lets drag everyone else down with us eh!!!! I previously mentioned to Amelia the same paradox re the deprived regions of England, mining communities etc - THE TORIES WERE THE CREATORS OF THE PROBS AND OFFERED NO SOLUTIONS FOR DECADES AND DECADES - FACT!!!! THESE TORY BASTARDS LEFT THEM TO ROT BECAUSE THEY STILL REGARD THEM TO BE THE COMMON ENEMY WHO DAMAGED THEIR REVERED SHIT HEID OF A PM, THATCHER!!! FACT!!! Therefore the argument being presented is a bogus one and it just confirmed how many politically illiterate people there are in the English electorate!! Re Scotland's position, I could weep re the negative outcome that we Scots endured in indy referendum year 2014 - WE WOULD'VE BEEN WELL ADVANCED INTO BEING AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY AND WOULD'VE BEEN BETTER FOR IT AS WELL AS DISTANCING OURSELVES AWAY FROM THE POISONOUS POLITICS THAT WERE RIFE IN ENGLAND SINCE THAT ILL-FATED EU REFERENDUM IN 2016!!! My beloved country, Scotland, has lost years in valuable progress away from the shit heid, disrespectful and sanctimonious politics of Westminster!! I currently live in a northern colony of Britain that is continually "peppered" with anti Scot govt/SNP unionist media shit - that's how I view it and it is an accurate description although one huge positive is that we still have a devolved govt that well over 80% of the Scot people supports wholeheartedly. IMO we could be doing so much better now with full powers in place!! As said previously, Scotland is such a different country and it has been proved again,and the indy mandate confirmed as usual, in that farcical December General Election!!!

[hibeejim21]

Jess Phillips, the Labour leadership candidate, has said she is opposed to holding a second referendum on Scottish independence.


Who gives a xxxx what that idiot thinks ? Its not up to her anyway.

Sick of these jokers spouting off about Scotland.

[hibeejim21]

Also while some are obsessing over the labour leave seats importance - labour lost more remain votes than it did leave. That is also going to be a serious problem for them going forward because a lot of people are not going to forgive labour for their role in this shitstorm.

A once great party, that genuinely changed peoples lives for the better reduced to the likes of jess Phillips and Rebecca long Bailey going for leadership. Only Keir Starmer (ironically his parents named him after the founder of the Labour Party) fits the bill.

Starmer might be a bit boring, but people are going to long for boring and competent after Boris is finished with them.