[0762]

This is the statement of the week for me from one of the imprisoned Catalonian political prisoners, Joaquim Forn, in the midst of a hunger strike by the jailed pro-independence leaders. Thanking the support from lotsa Scots, Forn said, "The fact that in Europe, in the 21st century, we are talking about exiled and imprisoned politicians should worry the European states and citizens. The crisis being lived in Catalonia should speak to all democrats. The debate about liberties is very much alive in Europe and the world, so we cannot live turning our backs as if this debate would not concern us". I think that's exactly what it is like in the UK although there is huge support being given by people from within the population, people with a moral fabric about them!! Note these political prisoners have now endured 14 months of detention by the Spanish govt - an absolute shocker!

[0762]

And now the trials of all these political prisoners begin after incarceration for well over a year. We'll discover if the Spanish judiciary has been "politicised" and, if it is, there could be real civil strife gonna be created by this fascist Spanish state as it transpires that many people in Catalonia (teachers, mayors, policemen etc) who criticise the Spanish state are being arrested and charged with "hate crimes"????? A ridiculous charge but I call this incitement and trying to "get a reacton" from a peaceful movement that is pushing to gain self-determination!! This is not democracy at work - it is power and governance by diktat and repression while many people throughout the world watch in disbelief and very little condemnation coming from certain other governments and the EU with their self-interests to protect!!

[Devongone]

" very little condemnation coming from certain other governments and the EU with their self-interests to protect!!"

This isn't Franco. Spain isn't officially a fascist state. The government is apparently socialist. Yet ......

The Catalonian movement was/is non-violent. People going to the polls were beaten-up by police. The innocent were imprisoned. Their leaders are now even charged with crimes of violence. They certainly broke the law, but they only wanted self-determination for what they regard as their nation and tried to prove their majority status only by organising elections, which would have been free and fair had it not been for violent government intervention.

Despite its stated aim of ever closer union the EU has had nothing worthwhile either to say or do. Indeed so enamoured are they by the Spanish that, with regard to Brexit, they describe Gibraltar as a "colony". In my eyes the EU is a twentieth century organisation with twentieth century ideas doomed to fall apart well before the middle of the twenty first century.

Catalonia as a whole may, or may not, want its freedom. I'm for letting it determine its own fate, just as I am for Scotland and Northern Ireland .... or even Gibraltar for that matter.

[spireitematt]

" very little condemnation coming from certain other governments and the EU with their self-interests to protect!!"

This isn't Franco. Spain isn't officially a fascist state. The government is apparently socialist. Yet ......

The Catalonian movement was/is non-violent. People going to the polls were beaten-up by police. The innocent were imprisoned. Their leaders are now even charged with crimes of violence. They certainly broke the law, but they only wanted self-determination for what they regard as their nation and tried to prove their majority status only by organising elections, which would have been free and fair had it not been for violent government intervention.

Despite its stated aim of ever closer union the EU has had nothing worthwhile either to say or do. Indeed so enamoured are they by the Spanish that, with regard to Brexit, they describe Gibraltar as a "colony". In my eyes the EU is a twentieth century organisation with twentieth century ideas doomed to fall apart well before the middle of the twenty first century.

Catalonia as a whole may, or may not, want its freedom. I'm for letting it determine its own fate, just as I am for Scotland and Northern Ireland .... or even Gibraltar for that matter.

Gibraltar had 2 sovereignty referendums. The first in 1967 where 99.64% wanted to stay under British sovereignty and 44 people voted to be under Spanish sovereignty. The one in 2002 was should Britain and Spain share sovereignty of Gibraltar and they said No.

The EU don't recognise Catalonia and the other 27/28 member states have the same view, how odd? So if Scotland left the UK and tried to join the EU then it would cause uprising in Spain and Catalonia.

[0762]

Lets also add for info the fact that 98% of the 2016 Gibraltar vote was to remain in the EU. A fairly "cut n dry" preference to stay in the single market!! The implications of that vote!!?? Well we can only wait n see eh!!

[0762]

Re Spain's culpability in their handling of the Catalonia crisis, if one scrutinises the EU Membership criteria (Copenhagen 1993) for countries who wish to join or are established members, one of the key criteria for membership is worded as follows:-

"Stable institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect and protection of minorities".


I wish the EU would start dictating to countries like Spain and France that they are not abiding by these rules and finally "take an ethical stance" to back up their own criterion for EU membership!! A case of "walk the walk" and "talk the talk"!

[0762]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49974289

As expected, massive prison sentences imposed on a group of people/politicians who touted a peaceful process for moving towards self-determination in the face of deceitful inferences that they were the "aggressor", the violent party/separatists, while the real facts are totally different with video evidence to back it up and the Spanish state and it's black-shirted Police clearly "at it". Junqueras given a 13 year sentence????? WTF!!!!??? Criminals who murder other innocent victims are sometimes given much lighter sentences than this kinda politically inspired shit imposed by the Spanish judiciary!!! And Junqueras and others have been incarcerated since I was on holiday in Barcelona/Catalonia in October 2017!!!! The reaction from an indy-supporting Catalonian population and govt will be intriguing because this sentence borders on incitement in a one-sided narrative from the Spanish govt. IMO this will galvanise the indy movement in Catalonia with action already happening on the streets!!! Finally break open the gun boxes and start shooting the Spanish Police who are acting on behalf of their government???? I hope not but this decision, a Francoist one, has created "patriots" overnight and an escalation of demonstrations and protests will follow!! IMO the indy movement in Catalonia is "stuck" with an autocratic govt that will not issue approval for a referendum, a legal one - SOMETHING HAS GOTTA GIVE AND I SUSPECT IT WILL EVENTUALLY BE A VIOLENT ONE WHILE THE EU HAS ALREADY STATED NEUTRALITY AND WILL NOT GET INVOLVED. IMO Spain is a fake democracy, pure n simple! Re the EU, their officials can refer to Article 7 re member states that use force and oppression against their own people!! Spain will argue that they are using the "force of law" but that is not true as Spain has used oppressive tactics to "shut up" the Catalonian people and pro indy politicians who always favoured peaceful and democratic processes. I witnessed these tactics, first hand, in 2017 - shocking undemocratic behaviour by a dominant state that can't get its head around the fact a majority population in Catalonia is pro-indy and has been for years.

[0762]

And so it comes to pass tonight that violent clashes with the same Spanish riot Police, who violated a previous peaceful process for self-determination, has erupted in various cities across Catalonia. Anybody surprised re this sudden change v what is effectively a Francoist government (and it is supposed to be a socialist govt??????) with a "black history" against Catalonia!!? No!! Looks like the next move is a General Strike at the weekend with massive demonstrations pushing for an immediate release of all political prisoners. IMO the "touch paper" has been lit!

[hibeejim21]

I can see that whole situation exploding.

[0762]

Amazing scenes today in Barcelona where vast numbers of the population are blocking roads and public buildings/thoroughfares in massive protests preceding a General Strike. What a massive show of defiance in the face of an oppressive Spanish fascist state.