[0762]

IMO this massive threat requires some very astute politicians and others to tackle these people who I regard as nothing short of being unscrupulous criminals! At the moment, I think UK democracy has actually stood up, so far, to this major assault from these fascists who are absolutely desperate for the reasons mentioned in thread #1660 and it has nothing to do with the needs of the country as government reports already tell us that it is illogical to move towards any Brexit deal, let alone a "No deal"! THEY MUST BE STOPPED AND OPPOSITION UNITY IS IMPERATIVE TO BLOCK THEM as emphasised regularly by the SNP's Ian Blackford!

[0762]

I just listened to a brief bbc Newsnight interview of a Tory govt minister for exiting the EU, a guy called Brandon Lewis, who really came over as the biggest embarrassment of a man who tried a "salesman's line" re the delivery of Brexit on 31 Oct, "getting Brexit done" and the people just want it to be delivered now. This moron then continued to avoid all searching questions and scrutiny until finally challenged that "you clearly don't wanna answer any questions re the mechanism or how you are gonna achieve such a deal, so how can the public possibly trust anything you say"? This is nothing other than a pretence!! When challenged re Police investigations into Johnson's questionable activities as London Mayor, this embarrassment of a Tory rep again "body swerving" at every turn!! I'm convinced now that there has to be a swift move to remove this desperate fascist British govt and replace with an emergency govt, an accountable one! Certain opposition parties really must swiftly "get their act together" and unify to eradicate a major threat to the country.

[0762]

Johnson "drum beating" again at the Toerags Conference in Manchester as expected! Uttering a significant line re his "final offer" to the EU but it looks like regretfully (???) we will part and go our separate ways in a "no deal" arrangement. This moron of a PM acts as if we are all fools re the extreme politics that he, Cummings and others in his RW govt have been deploying for months and this final Brexit propoal is a pretence, pure n simple, that has already been rejected by the Irish govt and other NI political parties apart from, GUESS WHO?? Yep!!!!! THE TOXIC DUP WHO THINK THEY REPRESENT THE INTERESTS OF THE NI PEOPLE BUT THEY DON'T!!!!

[hibeejim21]

His solution to keeping no border in Ireland ?   Lets have 2 borders instead. What a fricking muppet.

As we've said from the start there is no interest in a deal, he is going to force us out and blame the EU and labour. His offer is a nonsense, giving the DUP a veto on an international peace treaty is absolute lunacy. He is offering the EU a deal that isn't really a deal. Its designed to fail.

No Deal = Chaos Capitalism = Here comes trumpy. History will show this is all part of some American/Russian larger project.

The easy thing for the EU to do now would be to throw Ireland and the GFA under the bus. Instead they have shown an integrity and decency that is lacking in our own politics.

[hibeejim21]

Johnson must really hate the Scottish legal system now.

Not only is it saving England from itself but its making him look a total mug.

[hibeejim21]

May was contrary and awkward and her grasp on reality at best only part-time, but the EU leaders were generous enough to keep humouring her and give her the time of day. That they no longer see any point in further dialogue with Blowjo speaks for itself.

Essentially Johnson wants to transfer the legal, regulatory, customs and political problems of Brexit and dump it on Ireland. And leave people and businesses in Ireland at the whim of the DUP, who will veto any alignment with the EU at first chance they get.

Basically he's told the Irish (and Northern Ireland voted remain remember) to go xxxx themselves. Once again as throughout history the UKs treatment of the Irish people is absolutely disgraceful and embarrassing.

[0762]

Yep! I concur with that end line. The one big difference is Johnson and May's govts were not dealing with "little old Ireland" any more as the EU is solidly behind the "island of Ireland" and will not allow this disgraceful disregard by this current fascist British govt without a rightful challenge on behalf of an EU member. This whole charade is an absolute disgrace and an affront to true British democratic process and respect for other nations incl the devolved countries!! What still amazes me is the fact that a significant part of the English population favours this bullshit!! The words "flabbergasted and gobsmacked" come to mind!!

[spireitematt]

How much do Countries get back for each £1 they put into the EU

1. Luxembourg = £34.04/£1
2. Bulgaria = £6.14/£1
3. Romania = £5.36/£1
4. Hungary = £4.92/£1
5. Lithuania = £4.63/£1
6. Slovakia = £4.12/£1
7. Greece = £3.88/£1
8. Estonia = £3.68/£1
9. Czech Republic = £3.45/£1
10. Latvia = £3.36/£1
11. Poland = £2.99/£1
12. Malta = £2.58/£1
13. Croatia = £2.36/£1
14. Portugal = £2.13/£1
15. Belgium = £2.03/£1
16. Slovenia = £1.60/£1
17. Ireland = £1.22/£1
18. Spain = £1.21/£1
19. Cyprus = £1.21/£1
20. Finland = 84p/£1
21. Italy = 83p/£1
22. Austria = 70p/£1
23. Denmark = 65p/£1
24. France = 58p/£1
25. Netherlands = 53p/£1
26. Sweden = 52p/£1
27. Germany = 43p/£1
28. United Kingdom = 38p/£1

Does the 62p they take off us go towards the benefit of Freedom Of Movement? No Custom Forms? Does it go to other countries to help them? The EU has no money of it's own, it doesn't manufacturer or sell anything, so where does this money go? MEPs wages? Pensions for MEPs?, EU buildings?

To me it looks like the EU collects all the money in a big pot from all the 28 contributing countries and then redistributes it about among the 28 EU countries but why? and for what purpose?

[0762]

Why? Based on these figures, I'm assuming that there is indeed a redistribution of capital/revenue from wealthier member states with the objective of improving the economies of lesser EU countries but there is a long-term goal of enhancing their trade linked macro economies through various schemes of modernisation, education, healthcare, agriculture, subsidies, social enterprise, emergency and humanitarian financial assistance, physical infrastructure and transport within a member state etc. Add in new eco friendly EU policy changes to suit the challenges of "climate change" and one can see that there is "huge money" (billions of Euros) attached to this brief outline of redistribution of EU capital/revenue. The breakdown of these assigned costs would be massive if anyone requested such a list covering a huge array of projects/schemes, initiatives and other EU future plans and proposals in all EU member states.

[hibeejim21]

Ahhh. The old brexiter trope about contributions returns, even at this late stage in the game.

How many times? The contribution must be weighed against the financial benefits of our access to the single market. In 2011, the UK government estimated this to be between £30 billion and £90 billion per year — so a return on investment of between 800% and 2370%. According to the CBI its worth about 3k to the average family in Britain.

Does that figure include the rebate ? Does it also consider that the European Commission also allocates funding directly to UK organisations, often following a competitive process. In recent years these funds have been worth around £1 billion - £2 billion to the UK.

As with all other members of the EU the UK is also a major shareholder in the European Investment Bank (EIB). It is the bank of the EU and works closely with the other EU governing bodies, investing in projects across Europe and around the world. I'm sure we have invested about 10 billion in it.

So you don't have to look far to see where the money is going.