[hibeejim21]

We are in a very dangerous spot at the moment, as Blackford pointed out earlier the SNP and greens would be willing to help corbyn form an interim government that could try and 'break the logjam'.

They would need the 21 'independent Conservative' MPs to vote with Labour/SNP and the Greens.

After Labour voted through their motion today at there last day of conference, I can't see them winning an election. The delegates voted to keep free movement for EU citizens and want to extend it globally to open borders. They want to give migrants the vote even if they don't have citizenship, close down immigration centres and scrap the rule on access to benefits so migrants and immigrants can claim benefits off the system even if they have not paid in or been here that long, they will also get access to the NHS and housing.

They also voted this week to abolish private schools and seize the buildings and put them under public ownership which is hypocrisy seeing as most Labour MPs send there children to private school.

The SNP are more like the opposition than Labour are. At least Ian Blackford can hold Johnson to account where Corbyn can't. Shame Ian Blackford can't become PM as he is the only leader who actually speaks any sense.

Yeah I agree, the motion for free movement is insanity especially considering their leaders stance on Brexit. Although after everything that's happened recently scrapping Eton might not be such a crazy idea after all.

Labour have also some very good policies to be fair that could very well be popular with the electorate. The State Pharma company, and national education system being cases in point.

It won't matter anyway because the English will view the election purely on Brexit and give that vile bastard Johnson his majority. His conduct yesterday was nothing short of a disgrace.

The SNP will clean up in Scotland and another referendum vote is a certainty.

---

We are in a very dangerous spot at the moment, as Blackford pointed out earlier the SNP and greens would be willing to help corbyn form an interim government that could try and 'break the logjam'.

They would need the 21 'independent Conservative' MPs to vote with Labour/SNP and the Greens.

After Labour voted through their motion today at there last day of conference, I can't see them winning an election. The delegates voted to keep free movement for EU citizens and want to extend it globally to open borders. They want to give migrants the vote even if they don't have citizenship, close down immigration centres and scrap the rule on access to benefits so migrants and immigrants can claim benefits off the system even if they have not paid in or been here that long, they will also get access to the NHS and housing.

They also voted this week to abolish private schools and seize the buildings and put them under public ownership which is hypocrisy seeing as most Labour MPs send there children to private school.

The SNP are more like the opposition than Labour are. At least Ian Blackford can hold Johnson to account where Corbyn can't. Shame Ian Blackford can't become PM as he is the only leader who actually speaks any sense.

Yeah I agree, the motion for free movement is insanity especially considering their leaders stance on Brexit. Although after everything that's happened recently scrapping Eton might not be such a crazy idea after all.

Labour have also some very good policies to be fair that could very well be popular with the electorate. The State Pharma company, and national education system being cases in point.

It won't matter anyway because the English will fight the election purely on Brexit and give that vile bastard Johnson his majority. His conduct yesterday was nothing short of a disgrace.

The SNP will clean up in Scotland and another referendum vote is a certainty.

[spireitematt]

We are in a very dangerous spot at the moment, as Blackford pointed out earlier the SNP and greens would be willing to help corbyn form an interim government that could try and 'break the logjam'.

They would need the 21 'independent Conservative' MPs to vote with Labour/SNP and the Greens.

After Labour voted through their motion today at there last day of conference, I can't see them winning an election. The delegates voted to keep free movement for EU citizens and want to extend it globally to open borders. They want to give migrants the vote even if they don't have citizenship, close down immigration centres and scrap the rule on access to benefits so migrants and immigrants can claim benefits off the system even if they have not paid in or been here that long, they will also get access to the NHS and housing.

They also voted this week to abolish private schools and seize the buildings and put them under public ownership which is hypocrisy seeing as most Labour MPs send there children to private school.

The SNP are more like the opposition than Labour are. At least Ian Blackford can hold Johnson to account where Corbyn can't. Shame Ian Blackford can't become PM as he is the only leader who actually speaks any sense.

Ian Blackford is a good Hibee as well Matt!! A top man!
I  must also add that, just like you, Corbyn and the Labour Party have totally bemused me and up here in Scotland Richard Leonard and the inept "out of touch" Scot Labour Party have definitely lost it and will be literally "wiped out" politically even though they have almost got there anyway after the last 12 years of degradation!! But reflecting back to Corbyn and his party, they wanna be "all things to all people" if you get my drift but it does not work that way. He should be leading decisively and choosing a side - in Labour's case, it looks like it should be remain mainly because that is the "mood swing" in England re Brexit even amongst a lotta previous leave voters and the decisive "middle ground" is remain territory. As previously commented, "I'm stumped re this lack of direction and leadership but unsurprised as it has gone on for that long with no significant change"!!! Is it deliberately ambiguous??? I'm not sure any more!! I'd say sit still and let the Tories move from crisis to crisis and eventually implode!! Also watch Johnson's disgraceful narrative on his return to parliament tonight - worth watching because this was real poisonous stuff being uttered by a moron who is guising as a British PM but using Trump style poisonous narrative to try and separate into a "them and us" political scenario - it is horrible politics that are being played out by desperate RW scumbags and I certainly fear that someone is definitely gonna get hurt, or worse, if they don't tone it down!!

If the SNP changed their name and wasn't a Scottish Nationalist party and stood candidates in England and Wales then I think people would vote for them and they would win seats especially where the Labour heartlands are or were. As it stands there isn't anything stopping them from standing candidates across the UK.

Joanna Cherry made a very good point that because Northern Ireland and Scotland voted to Remain in the 2016 referendum they pretty much vetoed Brexit seeing as we are all in a union. In the EU normally if one of the 27/28 countries veto's something then it doesn't go ahead but lately the EU have been ignoring veto's like they did to Hungary. They ignored our veto in 2011 on the Greece Euro zone crisis and went ahead with what they were going to do anyway. Apparently in the next treaty change next year they are going to do away with the veto.

[hibeejim21]

"They ignored our veto in 2011 on the Greece Euro zone crisis and went ahead with what they were going to do anyway"


That isn't strictly true. Cameron amended our veto when he renegotiated our deal. Non-euro members such as the UK were “not to impede the implementation of legal acts directly linked to the functioning of the euro area and shall refrain from measures which could jeopardise the attainment of the objectives of economic and monetary union”.

Indeed, the 2015 Conservative manifesto boasts: “We took Britain out of Eurozone bailouts, including for Greece – the first ever return of powers from Brussels.”

[spireitematt]

"They ignored our veto in 2011 on the Greece Euro zone crisis and went ahead with what they were going to do anyway"


That isn't strictly true. Cameron amended our veto when he renegotiated our deal.  Non-euro members such as the UK were  “not to impede the implementation of legal acts directly linked to the functioning of the euro area and shall refrain from measures which could jeopardise the attainment of the objectives of economic and monetary union”.

Indeed, the 2015 Conservative manifesto boasts: “We took Britain out of Eurozone bailouts, including for Greece – the first ever return of powers from Brussels.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/d...-eu-treaty - They ignored this though and went ahead and did what they wanted. Cameron mentioned this in the TV interview programme 'The Cameron Years'.

Only country we bailed out in the EU was Ireland. In 2010 when we were in the process of changing governments to the coalition and the Euro zone was in meltdown they asked Britain and Alistair Darling who was then the outgoing chancellor could Britain contribute to the bailout and Alistair Darling had to explain that he was the outgoing chancellor and couldn't do anything and spoke to George Osborne about this. What Alistair Darling did was give back the rebate to the EU to help them out. I remember the Euro zone crisis in 2010 because the EU were worried it was going to be the end of the EU because Italy, Greece, Ireland, Spain, Portugal were all in financial trouble.

[hibeejim21]

"They ignored our veto in 2011 on the Greece Euro zone crisis and went ahead with what they were going to do anyway"


That isn't strictly true. Cameron amended our veto when he renegotiated our deal.  Non-euro members such as the UK were  “not to impede the implementation of legal acts directly linked to the functioning of the euro area and shall refrain from measures which could jeopardise the attainment of the objectives of economic and monetary union”.

Indeed, the 2015 Conservative manifesto boasts: “We took Britain out of Eurozone bailouts, including for Greece – the first ever return of powers from Brussels.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/d...-eu-treaty - They ignored this though and went ahead and did what they wanted. Cameron mentioned this in the TV interview programme 'The Cameron Years'.

Only country we bailed out in the EU was Ireland. In 2010 when we were in the process of changing governments to the coalition and the Euro zone was in meltdown they asked Britain and Alistair Darling who was then the outgoing chancellor could Britain contribute to the bailout and Alistair Darling had to explain that he was the outgoing chancellor and couldn't do anything and spoke to George Osborne about this. What Alistair Darling did was give back the rebate to the EU to help them out. I remember the Euro zone crisis in 2010 because the EU were worried it was going to be the end of the EU because Italy, Greece, Ireland, Spain, Portugal were all in financial trouble.

Your article just backs up what I said. Also Cameron is a lying bastard, he knew exactly what he was doing.

He chucked the UKs veto rights for further concessions and signed off on a deal which contained the quotation in my earlier post. They didn't ignore our veto Cameron just sold it.

[ritchiebaby]

0762, don't bother getting uppity about me using the term "will of the people". You have used the term yourself in your posts, so to criticise me for doing it smacks of hypocrisy.

Anyway, whether you like it or not, the EU referendum was for the whole of the UK, not just certain parts of it. And whether you like it or not, the first past the post system is the one in operation, so we have to accept it.

Whatever terms you and I might choose to use, my basic points in the last sentence remain.

Have I really used that "will of the people" irritating rhetorical line that applies to a split vote on a referendum!!???? I hate that line, it is a form of brainwashing deliberately used for years by lotsa Brexit backers and, NOT BEING UPPITY ABOUT IT, it is "tiresome" and I would never use it to cover such a split vote anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!! Show me a thread where I've used this line in that context!!??? If I was to use this rhetorical line to make a point, I'd use it only in a unanimous scenario!! WE HAVE TO ACCEPT A SHIT FPTP SYSTEM??? Why????? Why wasn't there a properly presented prospectus on a very complex issue as we have discovered down the years?????? That system is flawed and you f###### well know it is without me ramming that fact down your throat - you are not that daft!! There are books written by well qualified authors about the misuse and advantages gained by certain parties using a FPTP system - visit a book shop like Watermans and buy one of them and enlighten yourself re this outdated system!! As for the "lets dismiss Scotland because we are a region" line - well we live in a sovereign country and read how most Scots view that kinda shit being uttered against what is now a huge Scottish opinion to remain in the EU, much greater than in 2016 and contrary to what you clearly want!! Lastly I have no issue re your end line Ritchie!! The country is polarised and Scotland must somehow remove itself from this "poison" and get away from this insanity. Like many pro indy Scots, I am losing patience although I do think "patience is a virtue" and one must hold firm as Scottish resolve for self-determination is increasing daily - I guess it is all about timing but when???

Regarding the first comment I have highlighted, I really don't want to get into an argument on your post, but you have used that term in a previous post on this thread - post #1584 in June - and you might have used it on other occasions, but I can't be bothered to go and look. On the second highlighted text, you are certainly not quoting me. Presumably someone else has said that, as I firmly believe that Scotland is not only a sovereign country, but should become an independent one. I don't dismiss or denigrate anyone who voted Remain, but simple arithmetic decides the winner - one vote would have been enough.

On the FPTP system, I'm not that daft, but we do have to accept it because it is the system in operation. I do agree that it does lead to either a Right or Left government over the years, meaning there is no consistency in UK policies. I would much prefer a PR system but that would depend on all parties coming together in the middle somewhere and there's no chance of that happening in Westminster. We always seem to be swaying from one extreme to the other and fighting amongst ourselves and the divide is growing and becoming more bitter every day. I can guarantee that it won't end well if attitudes don't soften a lot.

[St Charles Owl]

I believe it was me who used the word "Region" in relation to the regions of the UK and how they voted in the Brexit referendum. On the results breakdown I referenced, they used the word region for the regional breakout of the UK, this happened to include the whole of Scotland, Wales and NI as regions the same as NW England etc. Seemed ok to me for the purposes of looking at regional differences within the UK as a whole but it did upset 0762!!

---

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49850484

Interesting piece on some of the behind the scenes efforts by opposition parties. It is absolutely crucial these parties come together to force a no confidence vote to stop a no deal and gain an extension. It is alluded to in this story and for me its absolutely crucial that no behind the scenes deals are done to either agree who would be interim PM nor to gain the support of any of the parties!! This is a single issue move and should have no bearing on anything beyond stopping the No Deal. Knowing the average politician as we do, I wonder if that is actually achievable??

[spireitematt]

"They ignored our veto in 2011 on the Greece Euro zone crisis and went ahead with what they were going to do anyway"


That isn't strictly true. Cameron amended our veto when he renegotiated our deal.  Non-euro members such as the UK were  “not to impede the implementation of legal acts directly linked to the functioning of the euro area and shall refrain from measures which could jeopardise the attainment of the objectives of economic and monetary union”.

Indeed, the 2015 Conservative manifesto boasts: “We took Britain out of Eurozone bailouts, including for Greece – the first ever return of powers from Brussels.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/d...-eu-treaty - They ignored this though and went ahead and did what they wanted. Cameron mentioned this in the TV interview programme 'The Cameron Years'.

Only country we bailed out in the EU was Ireland. In 2010 when we were in the process of changing governments to the coalition and the Euro zone was in meltdown they asked Britain and Alistair Darling who was then the outgoing chancellor could Britain contribute to the bailout and Alistair Darling had to explain that he was the outgoing chancellor and couldn't do anything and spoke to George Osborne about this. What Alistair Darling did was give back the rebate to the EU to help them out. I remember the Euro zone crisis in 2010 because the EU were worried it was going to be the end of the EU because Italy, Greece, Ireland, Spain, Portugal were all in financial trouble.

Your article just backs up what I said. Also Cameron is a lying bastard, he knew exactly what he was doing.

He chucked the UKs veto rights for further concessions and signed off on a deal which contained the quotation in my earlier post. They didn't ignore our veto Cameron just sold it.

To be honest Hibeejim I am getting to the point where I don't care anymore as I am becoming bored and disillusioned with all of them. Fed up of Brexit and British politics at the minute is so toxic and nasty.

[hibeejim21]

It's only going to get worse I'm afraid matt.

Johnson is a disgrace to this country, and every right minded person should be deeply ashamed that this disgusting excuse of a politician is the head of our Government.
This is the U.K for fucks sake., not some third world, tin pot dictatorship.

[hibeejim21]

Thats both Philip hammond the ex chancellor and even blowjo the clowns xxxx sister both said now that Boris will crash us out because his backers have invested billions on the pound tanking and inflation soaring after we leave.

I mean its been obvious for years but still people on the news are marching blindly behind these arseholes for taking on the 'elite'. England has completely lost its shit.