[0762]

Matt I thought Farage showed up to pick up his nice monthly salary cheque and while ensuring that his tidy "pension pot" was secure - all provided from his "enemy" employer, The EU. The words "hypocrite" and "double speak" come to mind when reflecting back to the national damage that this #### has been associated with!!

[St Charles Owl]

I'll add if it was "leave winning again" by some miracle, my belief in absolute common sense and human nature would be "shot" for all time and I would seriously consider leaving this country! The next best thing would be, as intimated by me many times before, Scottish independence. But my optimism re this particular route to proper governance of my country is not particularly positive anyway as I observe an institutionalised Unionism in Scotland that still embraces a  significant proportion of our population that is happy for Scots to be subservient to Westminster's diktat!! It is a "braking force" on proper self-determination that is difficult to remove esp if one wants a true drive for Scot indy that embraces over 60% of any referendum vote!! I just can't see it and that issue is endorsed with the British govt's intransigent stance and as for their stooge of a Secretary of State for Scotland, Mundell, my disregard for this bastard of a man, with no true interest in Scotland, is unprintable!!

Untying everything we had with the EU was probably a task beyond most politicians, on both sides!!! The whole EU thing was about unity, it was never designed for someone to suddenly leave!!

Now lets apply that to your wish for Scottish independence, you know my stance is I prefer the UK stay together but I also respect that its up to the residents of Scotland to make that decision ultimately. But lets assume a vote does take place some time in the future and lets assume independence manages to turn around the last vote, how on earth does anyone think there could ever be an amicable agreement as to what that divorce would look like??? Untying the UK after 300 years of Union would be a nightmare compared to what we have witnessed over the last two years with Brexit!!!! We are joined at the hip in the UK, we were only really holding hands in comparison with the EU. I reckon it would take years to split Scotland off, if it was even possible to begin with.

[0762]

At the moment I couldn't argue with that unless a new strategy is laid out to paint an alternative future. I still wonder why half of all voting Scots look at the Brexit debacle in the face (and losing the will to live) and conclude that staying in the UK is a safer bet than independence??? When people shrug and say, "I wish they'd get on with it", are they really thinking properly - if we must have our economy and society torn to pieces can you do it quickly please??? Mental!! Has the sedating spirit of "Keep calm and carry on" jumped from fridge magnets into people's souls"?? Has chronic passivity engendered by centuries of safe seats and first-past-the post voting turned voters into disengaged consumers who won't run for the fire exit even when an actual blaze is crackling all around?? In short, why aren't Scots queuing up to leave the Union right now? After all, Brexit has shone a floodlight on the incompetence, bad faith, double standards, greed, self-interest and acts of crass stupidity of both main parties at Westminster!!! That is strange in a country that voted solidly to remain in the EU!! I see it that once the Scot gov is certain the UK is beyond saving itself, and that will happen one day, its priorities must change. Occasional independence name-checks are not enough!!. Hence my suggestion that a new indy strategy needed for these new circumstances, not least because the current default is "indy lite" - a softly, softly strategy promoted for over a couple of years by Alex Salmond. Of course, there is a strong case for a realistic "hard" Scotexit from the UK - it just is not being made right now!! IMO that is the main reason why opinion polls re indy are "sticky". Contrast UKIP's "land of hope and glory Brexit narrative" (promoted by the bbc and most big newspapers to normalise it - the "promised land" etc) and compare it with the case for Scottish independence. What is it now???? What is the dream??? What is its strength?? A strategy must be devised to popularise, describe and normalise Scotland's alternative future outside the UK and if that isn't Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP, it must be a reinvigorated Yes movement!! With uncertainty all around us, the undecided are understandably frightened about taking a new direction that is advocated only occasionally and half-heartedly without a clear destination, game-plan and strong, confident leadership. The important thing right now is not overcoming every difficulty facing Indyref2 in a "oner" - it is creating momentum, so that all Scots are actively considering the case for constitutional change. That does not need a date or even 60% in the polls. It needs a destination and a vision NOW!!!!

[themaclad]

Right kiddies we are now into the end game I have contributed little to this thread however this is my prediction of what will happen

Tuesday May loses vote again
Wednesday Corbyn calls Confidence vote in Government
Thursday May due to go to Brussels to negotiate extension of A 50, can't go if CV

Scenario 1
May wins VC vote goes to Brussels Friday, no guarentee she will get an extension, comes back to Parliament for yet another vote again next week she'll lose that as well. No time to pas Act of Parliament to change A50 leave EU 29/3/2019

Scenario 2

Corbyn wins confidence vote, which means Goverment has two weeks to form a new administration, during this period they cannot pass any legisdlation until new Government formed on 3/4/2019 by which time we have left the EU

Scenario 3 Any extension to A 50 would need to go to the House of Commons twice and the House of Lords once, it would probably pass the first chambers however they have no time limits on debates filibustering will take place especially amonst Brexit supporting Lords also may put quite a few amendments on to Bill which will need to be debated in House Of Commomns, by my reckoning they will have five days to do this.

Scenario 4

Could be wrong on 1,2 and 3 but my guess is for 2

[spireitematt]

Nigel's March to Leave was a damp squib in more ways than one. People signed up to pay £50 to walk from Sunderland to London, Nigel isn't walking all the way and neither are the people who signed up as they will be getting buses part of the way too. About 50-60 people started off yesterday and today there were about 8-9 people left on the march. Today they had to make a 5 mile detour because the organisers didn't take into account that the Tees Transporter Bridge is closed on Sundays.

[hibeejim21]

Farage the pound shop fascist...still doing what he does best. Conning the gullible.

[ritchiebaby]

What about the burning question? Did he have a pint of English beer in his hand for a photo opportunity? The one thing he's good at.

[0762]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/201...rexit-deal

Is it just me or do you detect there is something so slimy and undemocratic with a move to woo a group of "devils" to favour a Brexit deal which is absolutely f###### awful, never mind the intractable "backstop issue"!!!? I think the Speaker, John Bercow, should block a third vote as a matter of principle and be done with it - f### these shameless contemptuous shit heids!!

[hibeejim21]

The political wing of a terrorist organisation, holds sway over the UK on the most vital decision politically since the war. Business in NI knows what a huge opportunity the backstop gives them and are desperate for these dinosaurs to sign up.

You couldnae make it up.

[0762]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/201...rexit-deal

Is it just me or do you detect there is something so slimy and undemocratic with a move to woo a group of "devils" to favour a Brexit deal which is absolutely f###### awful, never mind the intractable "backstop issue"!!!? I think the Speaker, John Bercow, should block a third vote as a matter of principle and be done with it - f### these shameless contemptuous shit heids!!

Bercow does indeed call a notice on the UK govt that a 3rd meaningful vote on the same issue, substantially the same, is not gonna happen!! Hooray!!! At last, common sense prevails!!! IMO there should not have been a 2nd vote based on the same principle of parliamentary rejection!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47614074