European Union Referendum - In or Out??

hibeejim21 · 12-03-2019, 16:02

Starmer ripped that document apart in the house last night. It looks like the ERG/DUP will vote against or perhaps abstain if they want to keep may in position. But really she should be standing down, extending article 50 and calling for another referendum.

Nicola Sturgeon
“Today’s events beg a real question for Scotland - do we want to continue with a situation where a handful of DUP MPs can hold more sway over the future of our country than our own democratically elected Parliament?”

Its hard to argue with her logic on this at all. Unless you are completely stupid, the DUP has its own xxxx devolved parliament and a nation that voted remain too!!

0762 · (This post was last modified: 12-03-2019, 21:54 by 0762.)

I agree 100% with Nicola's comment and it has been previously mentioned in a similar fashion on this Sb board! I call it a minority government of a country with impunity when it comes to "going to bed" with a group of "devils" called the DUP in order to desperately retain power - a disgrace!

**St Charles Owl** · (This post was last modified: 12-03-2019, 21:32 by St Charles Owl.)

May's deal defeated by a 149 majority!!! Something has to give now surely!!

May announces a free vote on a No Deal Brexit tomorrow and also states she will vote against that.

hibeejim21 · 12-03-2019, 22:27

Asking for an extension to Art 50 is the only sensible option now. And if no consensus can be found it has to go back to the people.

The UK has got six xxxx trade agreements so far. SIX! (Chile, Switzerland, the East- and South African trade agreement, Israel, Lichtenstein, Palestine, and the Faroe Islands). Laugh

Where are all those FTAs? The UK is two and a half weeks away from crashing out without next to nothing, trillions of pounds and business leaving the country and a chunk of our tax revenues with it.

Keeping no deal on the table to this stage in proceedings was absolutely nuts, that will hopefully be out the picture tomorrow.

0762 · (This post was last modified: 13-03-2019, 00:39 by 0762.)

Parliamentarians are against a "no deal" but there is still a concern that there are lunatics who still wanna see it happen - absolutely nuts!!! A common f### off unthinking comment is, " I'm happy with a no deal" dohhhhh!!!! Hopefully that will be "slapped down" tomorrow in another logical step towards an eventual people's vote which is still not certain!! IMO parliament must take control and somebody must show some form of leadership. The lunatics must not be allowed to hijack this process!!

(12-03-2019, 21:24)St Charles Owl Wrote: May's deal defeated by a 149 majority!!! Something has to give now surely!!

May announces a free vote on a No Deal Brexit tomorrow and also states she will vote against that.

May's croaky voice just added to the drama of this political implosion!! It was like listening to a Dalek lol!!

**spireitematt** · 13-03-2019, 00:46

Brexit won't happen, it was never going to happen and they never intended it to happen. The whole thing has been frustrated from the very start, we have a PM who is a remainer who doesn't want Brexit, we have big banks and multi-national corporations who don't want Brexit. It's impossible to leave the EU, it's like we've been locked in for the past 46 years both politically and financially. The only way we will leave the EU is if the whole thing falls apart and disbands. I believe this was the plan all along frustrate the process so the people eventually get bored and so we decide to stay.

All that will have come from this is we will be in a much weaker position in the EU and won't be taken seriously. Also the fractions in society will be there for years to come. We can't leave a Union after 46 years so how Scotland are going to leave a Union after 300 years I don't know.

A No deal vote won't pass and neither will extending Article 50. It will be revoke Article 50 and have a 2nd referendum.

hibeejim21 · 13-03-2019, 02:04

The EUs primary objective is to maintain the integrity of the EU, not lock the UK into it. British politics is too broken for it to remain a viable EU member now. The withdrawal agreement lets us go but protects the single market, the EU want us gone.

There was no deal that the EU could give that the ERG/DUP would accept, equally they won't accept labours plan either. The EU will only allow a delay for a referendum or a new government, if no-one in parliament will take control we will have to vote ourselves..... its the only way right ?

**spireitematt** · 13-03-2019, 03:41

(13-03-2019, 02:04)hibeejim21 Wrote: The EUs primary objective is to maintain the integrity of the EU, not lock the UK into it. British politics is too broken for it to remain a viable EU member now. The withdrawal agreement lets us go but protects the single market, the EU want us gone.

There was no deal that the EU could give that the ERG/DUP would accept, equally they won't accept labours plan either. The EU will only allow a delay for a referendum or a new government, if no-one in parliament will take control we will have to vote ourselves..... its the only way right ?

What integrity? The EU is like every Government in every country, they work for themselves and some officials not all will be corrupt like there is in all Governments and organisations. We joined the Common Market in 1973 and in the past 46 years we have took EU Regulations and laws and we have money tied up in there bank as well. The EU has done some good things but it comes across as a middle man between the rest of the member states and sort of like a pyramid scheme especially with all the money involved. It doesn't make a product or sell anything.

The EU or the Common Market never wanted us in the first place. De Gaulle rejected us joining the common market back in the 50s and 60s.

The ERG seem to be holding the Tory party and the country to ransom. The ERG want a very very hard brexit. Sounds to me like your advocating a General strike.

hibeejim21 · (This post was last modified: 13-03-2019, 10:34 by hibeejim21.)

I was talking about their structural integrity, the integrity of their borders and single market. But if you want to go down that route the EU have shown more moral integrity too. That's because European nations opted to put the needs of Ireland, a small country, ahead of demands of the UK, a bigger,wealthier country. That shows the protection that EU membership affords, and it also proves that national power can be strengthened in Brussels, where you seem to insist it can only be debilitated there.

I got no idea why you think I'm advocating a general strike matt, I'm advocating a confirmatory vote by the british people because parliament has run out of time to make a decision.

The EU is far from perfect but it will contribute a lot more to the UK than the likes of banks,farage,bojo,francois,rees mogg and all their trump/putin friends ever will. I've got no idea how its going to pan out, but if its like you say it will then one day we will all be grateful.

0762 · (This post was last modified: 13-03-2019, 15:02 by 0762.)

Well just look at the wording of today's motion re a "no deal" outcome and what do we conclude:

"That this House declines to approve leaving the EU without a Withdrawal Agreement and a Framework for the Future Relationship on 29 March 2019; and notes that leaving without a deal remains the default in UK and EU law unless this House and the EU ratify an agreement".

My conclusion is these shameless bastards (and that is exactly what they are!!!) are still "playing political games" where a rejection of a "no deal" option is not a rejection of Brexit, end of, but moving parliamentarians towards another debate on a modified Brexit deal that ultimately is not comparable to the deal we have at the moment and remember that the legal side of our withdrawal agreement will not be changed and we could accidently leave without a deal!!! What a joke, a catastrophe, and I think the criticism of the EU is miniscule when observing the sham that is going on in Westminster and full of English arrogance, dollops of it, for months n months. Funnily enough, a hard Brexit would suit Scottish interests "down to the ground" now that recent opinion polls have shown a huge swing for Scottish independence as opposed to any Brexit deal. I wonder why that is eh!!??? Because the majority of our population are culturally and politically different from that dominant voting population in England!! I have many European contacts/relatives in The Netherlands and elsewhere and they realise that fact as well as highlighting that we are a "laughing stock" that is predominantly driven by English arrogance and a totally different mentality on this subject from day 1 when David Cameron stupidly "let the genie out the bottle" and didn't need to go anywhere near this nonsense!! An absolutely selfish idiot who was reminded of that fact by many of his utterly surprised political colleagues!! We are embroiled in a national crisis and the other conclusion which I'm sure we all agree on is PARLIAMENT IS BROKEN TOGETHER WITH THE POLITICAL SYSTEM THAT WE PRACTICE IN THE UK. And consequently the Union is broken with it and Scotland will move on as a natural recourse - it is inevitable and the right way to go!! Scotland can fully govern it's own affairs far better than the shit heids we've been observing for far too long!!