European Union Referendum - In or Out??

hibeejim21 · 14-02-2019, 16:53

"European council president, Donald Tusk, directly suggested to May last week that Corbyn’s Brexit plan might be a way out of the deadlock, sources said May did not respond."

Looks like we will be getting the full fat,red white and blue,brexit means brexit,taking back control version.

0762 · (This post was last modified: 14-02-2019, 21:35 by 0762.)

Ha ha ha!! The will of the people on a f###### 52% f### off vote!! Thumb down

Taking back control ha ha ha ha!! Aye, red white n blue Brexit full of the usual sound bites by all these extreme clowns who keep consistently uttering this shit to try and convince nobody with any common sense, and particularly those in two of the nations that comprise the Union, Scotland and NI!!!
Meanwhile the PM's Brexit plan B defeated tonight. Where to go next? And they'd better f### off with any notion of a no deal!!! Get back to the people and lets finally re-affirm this need for a downgrade of our trading capabilities - let the people decide eh and lets be democratic about it and find out how much of a majority really want this shit rather than ignite a rebellion that this UK govt will have never experienced in its history!!! The previous poll tax riots would be a mere street party compared with this possibility lol!!

ritchiebaby · 14-02-2019, 22:26

Regrettably, I have to be the bearer of bad news to those of a certain disposition, but the people have already decided on leaving the EU and the Government have tried (miserably in my opinion) to carry out that instruction. Their negotiations have been conducted in a shambolic, amateurish fashion but the basic fact still holds good.

Also the legal default position is that the UK will leave the EU on 29 March, with or without a deal. No amount of parliamentary debate will alter that until appropriate legislation is passed.

Finally Mrs May has always rightly said that currently the only way to ensure that No Deal is off the table is to vote for her Deal (whatever the latest version is). I don't like her Deal one little bit but she is right in that respect.

The only thing I can say in my defence is "Don't shoot the messenger"!

**spireitematt** · 15-02-2019, 00:40

(14-02-2019, 22:26)ritchiebaby Wrote: Regrettably, I have to be the bearer of bad news to those of a certain disposition, but the people have already decided on leaving the EU and the Government have tried (miserably in my opinion) to carry out that instruction. Their negotiations have been conducted in a shambolic, amateurish fashion but the basic fact still holds good.

Also the legal default position is that the UK will leave the EU on 29 March, with or without a deal. No amount of parliamentary debate will alter that until appropriate legislation is passed.

Finally Mrs May has always rightly said that currently the only way to ensure that No Deal is off the table is to vote for her Deal (whatever the latest version is). I don't like her Deal one little bit but she is right in that respect.

The only thing I can say in my defence is "Don't shoot the messenger"!

May's deal is technically Remain.

It looks like she is letting the clock tick down so then Parliament will vote for her deal at the last minute instead of risking a No Deal.

Also no one has actually talked about it but if there is a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland it could become the new Calais because what would stop economic migrants travelling to Ireland and then getting into Northern Ireland or then travelling across to England.

As much as I dislike the EU, it's looking more and more unrealistic and not feasible that a member state can leave, I think at this rate the EU will collapse before we eventually Leave. I think Article 50 will be extended or even be revoked and another referendum will happen because Parliament won't vote for a No Deal, they can't agree on any deal including May's and the EU won't give or negotiate a new deal.

The Tories won't go for no deal because they will never be forgiven for trashing the economy and the Tories in future elections will spin it that this was Labour's fault etc etc. You then have the EU who are getting worried and people like Tusk, Barnier and Vehofstadt are getting annoyed and angry and very verbal that No Deal will happen and the likes of Germany, Italy, France etc will probably be putting pressure on them to stop a No Deal from happening.

0762 · (This post was last modified: 15-02-2019, 02:11 by 0762.)

Well here's a different view!!! This whole Brexit fiasco has been a "hijack" from start to finish with a real "first past the post mentality" attached to it and that is a fact!!! I think it is high time the public took this process back from the "lunatics who took over the asylum", hijack it back if necessary and form a public assembly of some sort and lets have the democratic right to scrutinise whatever mismanaged proposal that will be "flung in our faces" with impunity amid a bias towards political party "needs" rather than the proper, progressive needs of the country and NOT TO ITS UTTER DETRIMENT!!! True democracy!!?? Huhhh!!! Some people really are "having a laugh" only its not funny, never was!! Nuff said!

hibeejim21 · (This post was last modified: 15-02-2019, 02:36 by hibeejim21.)

My feeling is that, when push comes to shove, the tory party is more important to May than anything. This means she would accept a no deal Brexit if that has a better chance of preserving Tory party unity than extending Article 50, holding a referendum, or working with labour to find a solution that will pass parliament.

For this to change those Tory MPs who are opposed to no deal need to become a greater pain in the arse for Theresa May than Rees-Mogg and his chums in the ERG and the D U xxxx P. This is quite the challenge and I do not think that they are up for it.

History is not going to be kind to this particular batch of political pygmies in Westminster.

hibeejim21 · 15-02-2019, 10:18

"May's deal is technically Remain. "

No it isn't. It's technically worse than remaining.

0762 · (This post was last modified: 15-02-2019, 13:54 by 0762.)

Exactly!!! So the natural recourse is to stick to the best researched agreement for UK trade to "tick over" at its optimum and that is what we have at the moment!!! There are good independent studies that endorse that fact and one does not have to be too bright to realise it anyway instead having "just an opinion"!!! The best analogy I can think of is owning a successful shop/business and being presented with an alternative business model that is effectively laid out "on a wing and a prayer"! One does not downgrade the successful business in favour of one that will lose money in future years!! That is nuts and illogical!!

**spireitematt** · (This post was last modified: 15-02-2019, 20:17 by spireitematt.)

(15-02-2019, 10:18)hibeejim21 Wrote: "May's deal is technically Remain. "

No it isn't. It's technically worse than remaining.

Well yeah its worse than remain but it still ties us up in certain organisations.

The EU should go back to the basics of a trading bloc with freedom of movement not a political union.

0762 · 17-02-2019, 12:46

(15-02-2019, 02:35)hibeejim21 Wrote: My feeling is that, when push comes to shove, the tory party is more important to May than anything. This means she would accept a no deal Brexit if that has a better chance of preserving Tory party unity than extending Article 50, holding a referendum, or working with labour to find a solution that will pass parliament.

For this to change those Tory MPs who are opposed to no deal need to become a greater pain in the arse for Theresa May than Rees-Mogg and his chums in the ERG and the D U xxxx P. This is quite the challenge and I do not think that they are up for it.

History is not going to be kind to this particular batch of political pygmies in Westminster.

This farce has "dragged on" for so long that now it looks like it is a case of which political party is actually gonna fragment first! I personally hope it is both of them in a situation where one cannot "square a circle" and all the main players in this charade are indeed "political pygmies" or my favourite word I've used before Brexit ever appeared in British politics - "lightweights"! Also agreed I hope history is not kind to these political "failures" because they deserve nothing if the truth be told and the story covers the whole shameful period from June 2016 onwards and even David Cameron's shameful role preceding that period.