[spireitematt]

More than 100 seats that backed Brexit now want to stay in EU.

Opinion polls don't mean anything. Only way to find out if areas or people back staying in the EU now is to have another referendum.

I've read people say on social media that if another vote or referendum happens then it should be done for 16-40 year olds and also all citizens living in the UK should be eligible to vote. If you let 16-40 years only vote then its obviously going to be a landside victory for Remain, the same when you allow all citizens living in the UK to vote.

EU citizens are allowed to vote in local elections and European elections but they can't vote in General Elections and referendums come under the same rules as General Elections.

The EU did try to pass a law a few months back where all European Citizens would be allowed to vote in General Elections and referendums in whatever country they reside in. They also talked about creating parties coming under one banner so parties like Labour and Conservative would join up with there European counterparts and come under one name. They didn't pass that either.

In the Scottish independence referendum 75% of English people living in Scotland voted No and the Yes campaign supporters were saying they shouldn't be allowed to vote in something which is to do with Scotland.

There probably needs to be a grown-up debate about letting non British citizens vote in elections. I think there are pros and cons to both sides.

[0762]

Was that any real surprise that 75% of English residents in Scotland voted no while the indigenous Scottish vote was a resounding yes for indy in our own country!!! And we also discovered that the "oldie vote" opted predominantly to join the English no vote and similarly, as mentioned in your thread, the "oldie vote" in the EU referendum again opted for the negative, insular leave vote - a totally different mindset to that of the younger generations who have to face the consequences of these votes - all democratic and "above board" but absolutely influenced and highly irritating when reflecting back to this utter folly even now!

[spireitematt]

Was that any real surprise that 75% of English residents in Scotland voted no while the indigenous Scottish vote was a resounding yes for indy in our own country!!! And we also discovered that the "oldie vote" opted predominantly to join the English no vote and similarly, as mentioned in your thread, the "oldie vote" in the EU referendum again opted for the negative, insular leave vote - a totally different mindset to that of the younger generations who have to face the consequences of these votes - all democratic and "above board" but absolutely influenced and highly irritating when reflecting back to this utter folly even now!

0762 People of any age group are allowed to vote a different way then yourself or I. That is democracy.

We are living in a society now where if someone voices there opinion or viewpoint they are shouted down and get loads of backlash for it so these people tend to keep quiet now and vote with their feet at polling stations and when people don't agree with how someone voted they abuse them for not thinking/voting the way they did. To change someone's opinion or viewpoint you do it by using facts and having a debate instead of shouting people down and giving them abuse.

Are people misled and lied to? Of course they are they are lied to they are lied to by politicians at nearly every general election and by the media in this country. The media in this country is predominately right wing and each newspaper and media platform have there own agenda. No one is ever going to get the full truth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGscoaUWW2M

[0762]

Good comments spireitmatt. I wish you'd been around in Scotland 2014 to witness, first hand, the shameless lies and deceptions that were peddled to the Scottish population incl the "oldies" who could be easily influenced/frightened by some of the shit that you refer to in your thread. It was one big unionist political game with a huge RW press campaign attached to it and one thing that came out of it was the gradual formation of the huge Scottish indy movement up here. Also that episode was a prelude to even more shameless activities to force a brexit vote and a RW agenda on the British population - it ####### well worked under real shady circumstances that we discovered later on. Democracy? Huhhh! One can remain extremely irritated by it all without name-calling anyone and indeed that is the case up here in Scotland where unified expression and opinion predominates to convince others to "pull their heads from the sand" and realise the union is well n truly over and let England deal with it's probs on it's own with poss Wales bizarrely in tow! As for NI? God knows what will eventually happen there if they get fooked about again eh!

[hibeejim21]

The wheels are coming off because tory austerity has sucked the wealth out of everyday consumers and communities, said wealth is being redistributed to the wealthiest corporations with aid from corporate welfare from the Treasury,plutocrats are being assisted by political party policy to offshore their finances.

The result?

Not enough wages for ordinary people, disposable income dropping. Small & Medium business’s can’t compete due to the power of these tax dodging conglomerates which now have huge political influence.

The rich & wealthiest combined with right wing press barons in scapegoating minorities and weaponising nationalism.

Brexit & Trump caused with the putin aided rise of the far right who are interfering in elections illegally.

What's left of social democracy is at risk unless we change course now.......but aye its the EU that is the most corrupt organisation EVER.

[0762]

As corrupt as FIFA eh lol! It's like a contagious disease!

[spireitematt]

Good comments spireitmatt. I wish you'd been around in Scotland 2014 to witness, first hand, the shameless lies and deceptions that were peddled to the Scottish population incl the "oldies" who could be easily influenced/frightened by some of the shit that you refer to in your thread. It was one big unionist political game with a huge RW press campaign attached to it and one thing that came out of it was the gradual formation of the huge Scottish indy movement up here. Also that episode was a prelude to even more shameless activities to force a brexit vote and a RW agenda on the British population - it ####### well worked under real shady circumstances that we discovered later on. Democracy? Huhhh! One can remain extremely irritated by it all without name-calling anyone and indeed that is the case up here in Scotland where unified expression and opinion predominates to convince others to "pull their heads from the sand" and realise the union is well n truly over and let England deal with it's probs on it's own with poss Wales bizarrely in tow! As for NI? God knows what will eventually happen there if they get fooked about again eh!

I heard and read all about the arguments and rows going on. Didn't people threaten and intimidate people outside polling stations?

[0762]

That insinuation is "new on me" and if it it did actually happen you are looking at an insignificant item in the overall scheme of things during a referendum period that had very little of this kinda stuff that the RW press/media were hoping to use against the nationalist cause - it is what they do shamelessly and even make it up on occasions to suit their agenda, in this case a unionist one. Lotsa Scots quickly wisened to this crass technique of reporting events. Hillsborough and Liverpool anyone!?

[spireitematt]

That insinuation is "new on me" and if it it did actually happen you are looking at an insignificant item in the overall scheme of things during a referendum period that had very little of this kinda stuff that the RW press/media were hoping to use against the nationalist cause - it is what they do shamelessly and even make it up on occasions to suit their agenda, in this case a unionist one. Lotsa Scots quickly wisened to this crass technique of reporting events. Hillsborough and Liverpool anyone!?

All of the media has an agenda though.

The BBC are seem to be Pro-Tory but Anti-Labour. ITV comes across as Pro-Tory. Only news programme is Channel 4 who seem to be impartial.

The Guardian/Observer is a liberal newspaper which seems to be catered for the middle class metropolitan elite in London and hipsters and majority of it seems to be opinion pieces and not news.

Daily Express, Daily Mail, Daily Telegraph are Pro-Tory and Anti-Labour. I think the Sun could come into that as well.

Daily Mirror is more Pro-Labour but more centre-left Labour not Corbyn's Labour.

The Morning Star is so left wing its more left wing than Corbyn.

Daily Express is now owned by The Mirror Group so will be interesting to see if they become less Tory.

The i newspaper is news without the daily celeb gossip and gets straight to the point but even that is starting to become a bit middle class with its columnists opinions.

In my opinion there needs to be a newspaper which is impartial and tells the news as it is, a newspaper for the people by the people.

The media tells us what to think, how to think and which way to vote and there are people out there who actually don't realise how they're being played for fools. I wouldn't class them as guillable but misled. I read several news websites and newspapers and then form my own opinion about topics or subjects but there are people out there who don't do that. They will read one newspaper and believe that it's word is gospel.

[0762]

Good comments and summation of the press and tv media but add in The National up here that has a high readership and favours the Scot Nationalist cause. I'd say that is why social media is gradually thriving as lotsa people opt to never buy any tabloid or heed some of the nonsensical stuff in the media for the reasons that you mention.