[hibeejim21]

Yes, the Labour party are in a poor position.  But I can't see any circumstance where those traditional Labour voters who voted Leave would vote for the Tories in any upcoming election, they will overwhelmingly still vote for Labour as there is no other alternative.  Labour needs to bite the bullet and come out with a clear stance on this, its probably the only way to stop the Tories and any Labour member will surely see that irrespective of how they voted in the referendum.  Policy positions can change as the situations that we find ourselves in changes too, nothing is set in stone with politics like this.

They also need to stop worrying about their traditional voters and focus on what they can do to entice the Tory voters who voted to stay, of which there are a few million, and use the middle ground to win an election, but they have to be bold to do that and as I say I am not convinced Corbyn has enough hold on power to push that through the party.

Au contraire. I actually think they are in a better position than the tories,and have the advantage of being able to be more flexible going forward as this shitstorm unravels. The tories don't have that luxury,may is firmly being driven down a hard brexit cul de sac by loon balls like bojo,IDS and rees mogg.

I was quite impressed with his speech today,not all of it was workable but it was miles better and clearer than anything may has produced so far and made a better fist of appealing to leavers and remainers than boris's speech did.

If it is 'cakeism' well at least his cake has some ingredients.

---

https://www.eca.europa.eu/Lists/ECADocum...pdf#page=6


That's from 2016.

It still doesn't make for good reading.

Matter of opinion. It at least dispels the lie that 'auditors haven't signed off or published EU accounts'

[St Charles Owl]

Yes, the Labour party are in a poor position.  But I can't see any circumstance where those traditional Labour voters who voted Leave would vote for the Tories in any upcoming election, they will overwhelmingly still vote for Labour as there is no other alternative.  Labour needs to bite the bullet and come out with a clear stance on this, its probably the only way to stop the Tories and any Labour member will surely see that irrespective of how they voted in the referendum.  Policy positions can change as the situations that we find ourselves in changes too, nothing is set in stone with politics like this.

They also need to stop worrying about their traditional voters and focus on what they can do to entice the Tory voters who voted to stay, of which there are a few million, and use the middle ground to win an election, but they have to be bold to do that and as I say I am not convinced Corbyn has enough hold on power to push that through the party.

Au contraire. I actually think they are in a better position than the tories,and have the advantage of being able to be more flexible going forward as this shitstorm unravels. The tories don't have that luxury,may is firmly being driven down a hard brexit cul de sac by loon balls like bojo,IDS and rees mogg.

I was quite impressed with his speech today,not all of it was workable but it was miles better and clearer than anything may has produced so far and made a better fist of appealing to leavers and remainers than boris's speech did.

If it is 'cakeism' well at least his cake has some ingredients.

I agree that the Tories are in a worse position, except for one key thing - they "won" the last election. Labour's goal has to be to get back into power and their policies need to be decisive and inclusive if they want to do that. They have to be able to attract some of the middle ground voters who voted remain and Tory if they want to have any chance of winning the next election and I think that means that have to take a stance that is unequivocal and to some extent opposite of what the Tories are suggesting and doing!

Cakeism?? - that is a new word on me!!!

[spireitematt]

Labour voters who voted leave are saying they are being betrayed and it isn't what they voted for and Labour voters and members who voted remain are saying they are being betrayed as they want to stay in the EU. So it looks like Labour may have just lost the next election.

Is that what the daily mail are saying now ?  

There is nothing corbyn said today that wasn't already in the partys manifesto,so anyone that feels 'betrayed' is being a bit daft.

No its what people are saying on twitter on Labour's tweets. I've not read what the Daily Mail are saying but its probably having a go at Labour and Corbyn like it always is. What I found weird the other day watching Question Time is there was a question by one of the audience who said something along the lines of "Can Jeremy Corbyn be trusted after renegading on tuition fees in his manifesto?" Well last time I checked the Tories were in power not Labour so how can you renegade on something which you can't put into place.

Labour said this in their manifesto.

"We will scrap the Conservatives’ Brexit White Paper and replace it with fresh negotiating priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union – which are essential for maintaining industries, jobs and businesses in Britain. Labour will always put jobs and the economy first."

---

Yes, the Labour party are in a poor position.  But I can't see any circumstance where those traditional Labour voters who voted Leave would vote for the Tories in any upcoming election, they will overwhelmingly still vote for Labour as there is no other alternative.  Labour needs to bite the bullet and come out with a clear stance on this, its probably the only way to stop the Tories and any Labour member will surely see that irrespective of how they voted in the referendum.  Policy positions can change as the situations that we find ourselves in changes too, nothing is set in stone with politics like this.

They also need to stop worrying about their traditional voters and focus on what they can do to entice the Tory voters who voted to stay, of which there are a few million, and use the middle ground to win an election, but they have to be bold to do that and as I say I am not convinced Corbyn has enough hold on power to push that through the party.

Au contraire. I actually think they are in a better position than the tories,and have the advantage of being able to be more flexible going forward as this shitstorm unravels. The tories don't have that luxury,may is firmly being driven down a hard brexit cul de sac by loon balls like bojo,IDS and rees mogg.

I was quite impressed with his speech today,not all of it was workable but it was miles better and clearer than anything may has produced so far and made a better fist of appealing to leavers and remainers than boris's speech did.

If it is 'cakeism' well at least his cake has some ingredients.

I agree that the Tories are in a worse position, except for one key thing - they "won" the last election.  Labour's goal has to be to get back into power and their policies need to be decisive and inclusive if they want to do that.  They have to be able to attract some of the middle ground voters who voted remain and Tory if they want to have any chance of winning the next election and I think that means that have to take a stance that is unequivocal and to some extent opposite of what the Tories are suggesting and doing!

Cakeism?? - that is a new word on me!!!

Cakeism is a word Barnier, Tusk or Juncker came up with saying Britain can't have its cake and eat it and that we can't cherry pick what we want.

[hibeejim21]

Yes, the Labour party are in a poor position.  But I can't see any circumstance where those traditional Labour voters who voted Leave would vote for the Tories in any upcoming election, they will overwhelmingly still vote for Labour as there is no other alternative.  Labour needs to bite the bullet and come out with a clear stance on this, its probably the only way to stop the Tories and any Labour member will surely see that irrespective of how they voted in the referendum.  Policy positions can change as the situations that we find ourselves in changes too, nothing is set in stone with politics like this.

They also need to stop worrying about their traditional voters and focus on what they can do to entice the Tory voters who voted to stay, of which there are a few million, and use the middle ground to win an election, but they have to be bold to do that and as I say I am not convinced Corbyn has enough hold on power to push that through the party.

Au contraire. I actually think they are in a better position than the tories,and have the advantage of being able to be more flexible going forward as this shitstorm unravels. The tories don't have that luxury,may is firmly being driven down a hard brexit cul de sac by loon balls like bojo,IDS and rees mogg.

I was quite impressed with his speech today,not all of it was workable but it was miles better and clearer than anything may has produced so far and made a better fist of appealing to leavers and remainers than boris's speech did.

If it is 'cakeism' well at least his cake has some ingredients.

I agree that the Tories are in a worse position, except for one key thing - they "won" the last election.  Labour's goal has to be to get back into power and their policies need to be decisive and inclusive if they want to do that.  They have to be able to attract some of the middle ground voters who voted remain and Tory if they want to have any chance of winning the next election and I think that means that have to take a stance that is unequivocal and to some extent opposite of what the Tories are suggesting and doing!

Cakeism?? - that is a new word on me!!!

Well people have a choice now, labour is now the party of soft brexit, and hard Brexit, which Labour opposes, will hit the so-called heartlands hardest.

I think support for brexit is going to dissipate and now Corbyn and labour finally have a position, there's a lot more work required to spell out what it means for the 'middle ground' as you call them. But he's taken that first important step, i'm actually surprised - he's been a bit more pragmatic than i thought he would.

It's the smart political move. Who would have thought the CBI and institute of directors would take his side over the tories on this ?

[St Charles Owl]

But do you think he is going far enough?? Should he be bolder and have Labour become the party of no brexit??

[hibeejim21]

But do you think he is going far enough??  Should he be bolder and have Labour become the party of no brexit??

I'd personally prefer to stay in the single market,or a norway style deal at the least. If he went full on anti-brexit he would be destroyed in the press.

He's pitched it to try and keep the leave voters on board. He's giving them what they want,a customs union just minimises the damage.

[spireitematt]

Yes, the Labour party are in a poor position.  But I can't see any circumstance where those traditional Labour voters who voted Leave would vote for the Tories in any upcoming election, they will overwhelmingly still vote for Labour as there is no other alternative.  Labour needs to bite the bullet and come out with a clear stance on this, its probably the only way to stop the Tories and any Labour member will surely see that irrespective of how they voted in the referendum.  Policy positions can change as the situations that we find ourselves in changes too, nothing is set in stone with politics like this.

They also need to stop worrying about their traditional voters and focus on what they can do to entice the Tory voters who voted to stay, of which there are a few million, and use the middle ground to win an election, but they have to be bold to do that and as I say I am not convinced Corbyn has enough hold on power to push that through the party.

Au contraire. I actually think they are in a better position than the tories,and have the advantage of being able to be more flexible going forward as this shitstorm unravels. The tories don't have that luxury,may is firmly being driven down a hard brexit cul de sac by loon balls like bojo,IDS and rees mogg.

I was quite impressed with his speech today,not all of it was workable but it was miles better and clearer than anything may has produced so far and made a better fist of appealing to leavers and remainers than boris's speech did.

If it is 'cakeism' well at least his cake has some ingredients.

I agree that the Tories are in a worse position, except for one key thing - they "won" the last election.  Labour's goal has to be to get back into power and their policies need to be decisive and inclusive if they want to do that.  They have to be able to attract some of the middle ground voters who voted remain and Tory if they want to have any chance of winning the next election and I think that means that have to take a stance that is unequivocal and to some extent opposite of what the Tories are suggesting and doing!

Cakeism?? - that is a new word on me!!!

Well people have a choice now, labour is now the party of soft brexit, and hard Brexit, which Labour opposes, will hit the so-called heartlands hardest.

I think support for brexit is going to dissipate and now Corbyn and labour finally have a position, there's a lot more work required to spell out what it means for the 'middle ground' as you call them. But he's taken that first important step, i'm actually surprised -  he's been a bit more pragmatic than i thought he would.

It's the smart political move. Who would have thought the CBI and institute of directors would take his side over the tories on this ?

Problem is now if we stay in the Customs Union and even stay in the Single Market, we won't be able to make trade deals with other countries except through the EU and the hard remainers will then say well what's the point of staying in the Customs Union and Single Market without having a seat at the table and being able to veto proposals. So then it will move from staying in the Customs Union and Single Market to remaining fully and possibly another referendum on the subject.

European Union is an issue where the country is always going to be split and you are never going to get the majority to agree, similar with Scottish independence so the debate will be never ending.

---

But do you think he is going far enough??  Should he be bolder and have Labour become the party of no brexit??

Corbyn has been Eurosceptic for 40 years, so he won't be against Brexit entirely, he fits into the same group as Skinner and Benn. Under a different leader I think Labour would have been against Brexit from the 24th June 2016.

[ritchiebaby]

https://www.eca.europa.eu/Lists/ECADocum...pdf#page=6


That's from 2016.

It still doesn't make for good reading.

Matter of opinion. It at least dispels the lie that 'auditors haven't signed off or published EU accounts'

Thankfully it's not just my opinion. It's the factual report from the ECA stating their findings, especially with regard to the re-imbursement of costs. They wouldn't have given a qualified opinion on these accounts if they were happy with their findings.

[hibeejim21]

https://www.eca.europa.eu/Lists/ECADocum...pdf#page=6


That's from 2016.

It still doesn't make for good reading.

Matter of opinion. It at least dispels the lie that 'auditors haven't signed off or published EU accounts'

Thankfully it's not just my opinion. It's the factual report from the ECA stating their findings, especially with regard to the re-imbursement of costs. They wouldn't have given a qualified opinion on these accounts if they were happy with their findings.

But they didn't give it an adverse opinion which is what some are saying they are trying to hide. This 'they haven't had the accounts signed off in 20 years' is a total lie.

The most recent report gives a qualified opinion that “A significant part of the 2016 expenditure audited was not affected by a material level of error”.

They stress around 3% of their budget was not used according to the rules,but that is "not a measure of fraud, inefficiency or waste"

[theo_luddite]

Yes, the Labour party are in a poor position.  But I can't see any circumstance where those traditional Labour voters who voted Leave would vote for the Tories in any upcoming election, they will overwhelmingly still vote for Labour as there is no other alternative.  Labour needs to bite the bullet and come out with a clear stance on this, its probably the only way to stop the Tories and any Labour member will surely see that irrespective of how they voted in the referendum.  Policy positions can change as the situations that we find ourselves in changes too, nothing is set in stone with politics like this.

They also need to stop worrying about their traditional voters and focus on what they can do to entice the Tory voters who voted to stay, of which there are a few million, and use the middle ground to win an election, but they have to be bold to do that and as I say I am not convinced Corbyn has enough hold on power to push that through the party.

Au contraire. I actually think they are in a better position than the tories,and have the advantage of being able to be more flexible going forward as this shitstorm unravels. The tories don't have that luxury,may is firmly being driven down a hard brexit cul de sac by loon balls like bojo,IDS and rees mogg.

I was quite impressed with his speech today,not all of it was workable but it was miles better and clearer than anything may has produced so far and made a better fist of appealing to leavers and remainers than boris's speech did.

If it is 'cakeism' well at least his cake has some ingredients.

---

https://www.eca.europa.eu/Lists/ECADocum...pdf#page=6


That's from 2016.

It still doesn't make for good reading.

Matter of opinion. It at least dispels the lie that 'auditors haven't signed off or published EU accounts'

Where do you see an Auditors signature in this document. Your companies books have to be signed off by both the auditors and the owner or the directors. This is an edited version and is not what would have to be filed at Companies House for example if they had to file their accounts in the UK.