[hibeejim21]

Those numbers illustrate one of the things that is wrong with the EU.  We pay in twice what we get back, and while I accept that isn’t the whole story, compare that to Hungary putting in 1 billion and getting 6.6b back!!!!!  Poland pays in 4b and gets 17.4b back, why???  There seems no rhyme or reason for these numbers to be all over the place and unless someone from the EU could explain that in layman terms these numbers will always seem wrong to the ordinary man in the street!!

But some of the EU spending does not directly come back to members because it is for policies implemented collectively for instance. I'd also bet that figure excludes amounts paid directly to UK recipients as well, such as universities for research. Even relatively small UK universities get hundreds of millions of euros.

There isn't going to be a budget where every person, organisation or country got out what they paid in. The EU budget sees richer EU member states being net contributors, and poorer member states being net recipients. This is a basic principle of re-distributive budgets,in particular with eastern European nations where it makes sense to help strengthen them.

The benefits of staying in the EU are far more complex that that in/out figure.

[spireitematt]

I think the reason for these numbers (if they are indeed accurate!) is fairly clear - there is a 'weighting' process whereby the more affluent countries do indeed support countries that are less affluent but the main objective is to try to raise the level of financial comfort that these lesser nations/members can enjoy and eventually raise their trade expectations in the process. As said previously, there must be some level of reform to gradually evolve in the future but IMO one does not remove one's membership from that huge market place called the EU and 'cut off your nose to spite yourself' - that is just utter folly! You force change from within!

The numbers are indeed correct.

Interesting thing I found out was, during the referendum the Leave campaign said the UK was in the top 3 contributors to the EU but actually we are the 8th highest contributor to the EU.

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Those numbers illustrate one of the things that is wrong with the EU.  We pay in twice what we get back, and while I accept that isn’t the whole story, compare that to Hungary putting in 1 billion and getting 6.6b back!!!!!  Poland pays in 4b and gets 17.4b back, why???  There seems no rhyme or reason for these numbers to be all over the place and unless someone from the EU could explain that in layman terms these numbers will always seem wrong to the ordinary man in the street!!

Don't even think the EU know why all these countries pay different amounts of money. Like 0762 said it there must be some sort of weighing process and probably depends on the population of countries, their economies etc.

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Those numbers illustrate one of the things that is wrong with the EU.  We pay in twice what we get back, and while I accept that isn’t the whole story, compare that to Hungary putting in 1 billion and getting 6.6b back!!!!!  Poland pays in 4b and gets 17.4b back, why???  There seems no rhyme or reason for these numbers to be all over the place and unless someone from the EU could explain that in layman terms these numbers will always seem wrong to the ordinary man in the street!!

But some of the EU spending does not directly come back to members because it is for policies implemented collectively for instance. I'd also bet that figure excludes amounts paid directly to UK recipients as well, such as universities for research. Even relatively small UK universities get hundreds of millions of euros.

There isn't going to be a budget where every person, organisation or country got out what they paid in. The EU budget sees richer EU member states being net contributors, and poorer member states being net recipients. This is a basic principle of re-distributive budgets,in particular with eastern European nations where it makes sense to help strengthen them.

The benefits of staying in the EU are far more complex that that in/out figure.

A lot of the money will probably go into other smaller organisations and then given out to countries and universities as grants for research like you say. It would be very interesting if the EU actually published their accounts and had them out publically so the citizens of each country could have a look to see where their actual money is going and on what.

[theo_luddite]

Their accounts haven't been signed off by the Auditors for years now so there's no chance of them publishing them

[hibeejim21]

https://www.eca.europa.eu/Lists/ECADocum...pdf#page=6


That's from 2016.

[spireitematt]

Labour voters who voted leave are saying they are being betrayed and it isn't what they voted for and Labour voters and members who voted remain are saying they are being betrayed as they want to stay in the EU. So it looks like Labour may have just lost the next election.

[St Charles Owl]

Non of the political parties would be able to satisfy all of their traditional voters. The referendum was not fought on party lines to start with but Labour's official stance was to remain so those Labour voters who voted to leave were going against the party to start with, why should they expect the party to now back them?

There is no political party who are campaigning on a platform of reversing the result across the whole of the UK, the Tories are cracking on with getting us out, Labour are undecided what they really want and are sitting on the fence hoping that when the Tories screw it up they can win an election by default and the Lib Dems aren't worth voting for in any election. If Labour wants to succeed on their own merits then they need to decide what side of the fence they are on and if they came out with a pledge to not allow Brexit to happen then its fair to say a lot of remain voters would vote for them on this topic alone. Just not sure Corbyn has the balls or the party support to do that though, so we will see another election where he is unelectable and the Tories will once again win!!

[spireitematt]

Non of the political parties would be able to satisfy all of their traditional voters.  The referendum was not fought on party lines to start with but Labour's official stance was to remain so those Labour voters who voted to leave were going against the party to start with, why should they expect the party to now back them?

There is no political party who are campaigning on a platform of reversing the result across the whole of the UK, the Tories are cracking on with getting us out, Labour are undecided what they really want and are sitting on the fence hoping that when the Tories screw it up they can win an election by default and the Lib Dems aren't worth voting for in any election.  If Labour wants to succeed on their own merits then they need to decide what side of the fence they are on and if they came out with a pledge to not allow Brexit to happen then its fair to say a lot of remain voters would vote for them on this topic alone.  Just not sure Corbyn has the balls or the party support to do that though, so we will see another election where he is unelectable and the Tories will once again win!!

Yes you are correct Labour's stance during the referendum was remain and they wanted their members and voters to vote remain during the referendum but 2/3 of the North which are Labour heartlands voted to Leave the EU and in the general election last year Labour said in their manifesto that they would respect the vote and that if they won the election then they would go through with the will of the British people and take Britain out of the EU. Since Labour lost the election in 2017 they have sat on the fence and there direction seemed to change from week to week until today when Corbyn announced that under Labour we would stay in the Customs Union but for some people such as voters, members and even MPs its not good enough as the Labour voters who voted Leave were under the impression that we would exit the EU altogether and the Labour members, voters and I would say majority of the MPs in the PLP want Britain to remain in the EU or at least the single market.

Labour are split just like the Tories are. Wouldn't surprise me if the next election is hung or the Tories win with a small majority.

[St Charles Owl]

Yes, the Labour party are in a poor position. But I can't see any circumstance where those traditional Labour voters who voted Leave would vote for the Tories in any upcoming election, they will overwhelmingly still vote for Labour as there is no other alternative. Labour needs to bite the bullet and come out with a clear stance on this, its probably the only way to stop the Tories and any Labour member will surely see that irrespective of how they voted in the referendum. Policy positions can change as the situations that we find ourselves in changes too, nothing is set in stone with politics like this.

They also need to stop worrying about their traditional voters and focus on what they can do to entice the Tory voters who voted to stay, of which there are a few million, and use the middle ground to win an election, but they have to be bold to do that and as I say I am not convinced Corbyn has enough hold on power to push that through the party.

[hibeejim21]

Labour voters who voted leave are saying they are being betrayed and it isn't what they voted for and Labour voters and members who voted remain are saying they are being betrayed as they want to stay in the EU. So it looks like Labour may have just lost the next election.

Is that what the daily mail are saying now ?

There is nothing corbyn said today that wasn't already in the partys manifesto,so anyone that feels 'betrayed' is being a bit daft.

[ritchiebaby]

https://www.eca.europa.eu/Lists/ECADocum...pdf#page=6


That's from 2016.

It still doesn't make for good reading.