[hibeejim21]

"EU says all EU Law will apply until end of transition, assumed to be 2021, and we have to stick with all four freedoms, which means EU immigration carries on as is for five years after the referendum"

The EU are ragdolling may and that drunken dimwit davis. May is caving in on every issue.

"strong and stable"

[0762]

I'm reading even more drivel from these RW lunatics from the Daily Mail (betrayals, Marxist revolutions, 'pigs flying above Downing Street' lol) and was amused last night by the bullish antics of a bbc QT guest called Isabel Oakeshot, another Daily Mail prat, educated at Gordonstoun and clearly a 'toerag to boot' and a fox hunter, who classes herself as a fervent brexiteer - her shit, brazen dialogue more or less confirmed that fact - not 'getting her way' and 'throwing the rattle out of the pram' - priceless to see these dangerous bastards squirming in their seats and screaming 'foul'!!

[spireitematt]

I'm reading even more drivel from these RW lunatics from the Daily Mail (betrayals, Marxist revolutions, 'pigs flying above Downing Street' lol) and was amused last night by the bullish antics of a bbc QT guest called Isabel Oakeshot, another Daily Mail prat, educated at Gordonstoun and clearly a 'toerag to boot' and a fox hunter, who classes herself as a fervent brexiteer - her shit, brazen dialogue more or less confirmed that fact - not 'getting her way' and 'throwing the rattle out of the pram' - priceless to see these dangerous bastards squirming in their seats and screaming 'foul'!!

I watched QT last night. Thought that comedian who is right wing spoke a lot of sense and Robert Winston. I think a lot of what Isabel Oakeshott says is to be controversial because people who say controversial things in the media or on TV programmes get talked about more than those who don't. What I can't work out is how can someone be so callous and not have any compassion for other people.

What the Daily Mail put out on there front page the other day is very very dangerous but then again this is a newspaper which supported Hitler and the blackshirts so not surprising. The right wing media in this country have an agenda as do the left wing media.

0762 and hibeejim21 do you read Private Eye? If not I urge you to it comes out every fortnight.

[0762]

I occasionally buy Private Eye and it is 'priceless' in 'taking the pish' out of certain politicians and media like the bbc and the Daily Mail and exposing the amount of hypocrisy and 'double standards' that are practised in this country. Brexit was a godsend for Ian Hislop and PE and the Grenfell disaster certainly exposed a lotta home truths re the political culture and bias in London with Private Eye at the forefront of this exposure. It is one of the most popular paper mags in the UK and no surprise there!

[Ska'dForLife-WBA]

I'm reading even more drivel from these RW lunatics from the Daily Mail (betrayals, Marxist revolutions, 'pigs flying above Downing Street' lol) and was amused last night by the bullish antics of a bbc QT guest called Isabel Oakeshot, another Daily Mail prat, educated at Gordonstoun and clearly a 'toerag to boot' and a fox hunter, who classes herself as a fervent brexiteer - her shit, brazen dialogue more or less confirmed that fact - not 'getting her way' and 'throwing the rattle out of the pram' - priceless to see these dangerous bastards squirming in their seats and screaming 'foul'!!

I think a lot of what Isabel Oakeshott says is to be controversial because people who say controversial things in the media or on TV programmes get talked about more than those who don't. What I can't work out is how can someone be so callous and not have any compassion for other people.

Essentially, people of that ilk pride themselves on being "hard-headed" and "unsentimental" and "able to take tough decisions" (for which, read "decisions which will land other people in the shit"). And the thing is, unfortunately there are situations - generally in very, very bad times - when that kind of mentality can prove useful or necessary. However, the vast majority of the time it comes across as, at best, a patronising and paternalist "mummy/daddy knows best" attitude reinforced by an ignorance of the realities of everyday life for ordinary people. At worst, when people like this start to view their hard-headed objectivity as a virtue in itself, surrounding themselves with others who think the same way and competing with one another to prove who can be the most ruthlessly clinical and mathematical about things... well, it's not hard to see how compassion and ethics can fly out the window.

[spireitematt]

A new poll has been released by BMG Research. They asked 1,509 (odd number) people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum. (Sounds a bit like family fortunes)

"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?".

51% said Remain

41% said Leave

7% said don't know

1% refused to answer

Once the don't knows were made to give an answer it pushed remain up to 55.5% and leave 44.5%.

However those who did vote in the referendum in 2016, 9 in 10 leave and remain voters remain unchanged in their view.

Be interesting to know where they asked these people in the survey.

From my point of view it looks like we won't leave the EU because the vote was in June 2016 and they put off triggering Article 50 till March 2017, now if you are going to leave you leave you don't put it off for several months. Problem is the country is split and divided and if we have another referendum then its just going to make it worse.

Also the problem with referendums is they are flawed and not legally binding, all a referendum is is an opinion poll and people's opinions can change over a period of time especially if they are fickle. Where as a General Election is legally binding and we had one in June 2017 and the main two parties the Tories and Labour stated that they respected the referendum back in 2016 and would go through with the decision of the will of the people with some differences as Labour talked about staying in the Single Market in their manifesto and the Tories went on about a "Red, White and Blue Brexit" whatever that means. The Lib Dems campaigned to stay in the EU in there manifesto but they did a little better than they did in 2015 but I still think the public don't trust the Lib Dems after they sold themselves back in 2010.

Then there's Scotland. There was a poll done by Survation last week and they asked 1,006 Scots about Independence. 46% were for it and 54% against it but a week before they did the poll and the results then were 47% for and 53% against.

[theo_luddite]

Umm - I don't think there was only 1500 voters in the difference Spireite and were those 1500 asked why they didn't vote in the first place?

Making it a minimum number (90%?) have to vote, minimum 60 or 70% required to win to make a change rather than a first past the post vote would have saved a lot of stupidity & huge amounts of money spent for no good reason. It would have also saved us having the country being divided 50:50 should we stay or should we go and the racism that has followed on. OK it was 48:52 if you want to be pedantic. That's still a lot of folk voting for common sense compared to a lot voting for the complete and utter bollox that they were led to believe by a bunch of clowns that mostly resigned as soon as they won because they no longer wanted to be part of the problem or even be the problem.

Then again, the Tories have shown on numerous occasions they can't run a piss-up in a House of Commons bar, but some fools keep voting for them.

[0762]

I'll add to that by saying that I literally scream at the box every time I hear some RW Tory or UKIP moron coming out with that rhetorical line that 'the majority of the UK population have spoken' or 'its the will of the British people' - aaaaarrrrghhhh!!!! It was a split f###### vote which has literally 'split the country' and now we know that a revote would endorse a decision to remain in the EU anyway!!!!!

[Devongone]

All sorts of crap has an effect on how human beans make decisions. That goes for both the electorate and the apparently expert decision-makers who become the elected by the random-select process known as democracy.

I can't delineate all the impulses behind the Leave vote, though one I'm sure of was actually language, I'd have been willing to stake everything I own on STAY doing at least 2% better than REMAIN, which was just one of many dumb choices Camerosborne made. What kind of Divvy outside the referendum debate has said, "I want to remain," in their whole life? Okay folks let's sell a word no-one uses and is redolent of death, yeah that'll bring in the votes big-time. Not.

People can't even get their head around voting for the best dancer on Strictly, they vote for the person they like most ..... They only voted for Mo Farah as BBC SPOTY when he actually got worse! Maybe you're right they probably would vote STAY, specially if Mrs May keeps on telling everybody she is very CLEAR on every issue. Is that clear as in transparent, or clear as your head when you are on a walking holiday in the hills with your Group 4 husband?

So what happens if we re-run the Referendum, is the next step best of three, best of five if Leave wins again, play Pooh Sticks, ask Martin Atkinson, get Dynamo to pick a card .........?

Mrs May doesn't look as though she knows where she is taking the country, but where would the country be if we said, we want to stay please, here we are all of us assuming the grovelling supine-gammawolf positions, please don't take our fat cat bankers to Frankfurt, we all really believe only people from Eastern Europe can pick our strawberries and that our rich farmers don't exploit them with long hours and dreadful conditions ...........

What happens if we don't leave, where are we then? Do you really believe we'll hit the re-set button to same-as-it-ever-was, letting the days go by? Is this a slate we can wipe clean? Or might there be a price for bending the rules, like joining the Euro like a new entrant ........ and if our crazy electorate were pumped full of a skewed version of the new reality by our skewed media, how then would they vote?

Am I wiser or more stupid than them? How can I ever know?

[0762]

The EU Chief Negotiator, Michel Barnier, 'laying it on the line' for phase 2 today - remain calm, there will be no kinda a la carte agreement with the UK and 'this is not the end of the road', far from it! I think this will be more 'ammunition' for all the RW Tory and allied media lunatics to 'tip over the edge' AGAIN and make erses of themselves and their warped values re brexit etc while about a dozen Toerag MPs are attempting to 'water down' May's attempt to endorse the brexit bill in UK law.