[St Charles Owl]

Brexit is and always was a false construct. The tories do not have a plan ffs.

The real reason for brexit is the tories mismanagement of the UK,which somehow they managed to blame on the EU. Its all moot anyway,as we've pointed out at length the EU hold all the cards in this one. Undeniably so.

Nobody has a plan as far as I can see, so it will come down to which party you have more faith in to get the best deal and I can't help but think more people will see this as being the Tories rather than Labour.

[hibeejim21]

I'm sure your right,but only because that's the way the argument has been framed by the tories and their right wing media allies.

Fact is the tories have nothing to face brexit with,but they are guaranteed to stir up xenophobic bullshit to cover their tracks and get their chums the best deal.

Anyway its done now. I have zero sympathy for the brexiters,they have no idea of the shite they face. xxxx em.

[St Charles Owl]

I'm sure your right,but only because that's the way the argument has been framed by the tories and their right wing media allies.

Fact is the tories have nothing to face brexit with,but they are guaranteed to stir up xenophobic bullshit to cover their tracks and get their chums the best deal.

Anyway its done now. I have zero sympathy for the brexiters,they have no idea of the shite they face. **** em.

And that brings us full circle back to Corbyn!! The Labour party (and Lib Dems) have to get the message across in a persuasive and factual manner but I am not convinced they have the stature or personality to do that. Most ordinary people want their leaders to be statesman like, whatever that means these days, and for me Corbyn is that guy you would see down the local pub, nice guy, honest and well meaning, but not PM material.

[0762]

Yep! I share that sentiment and I think Merkel's recent reference to the UK 'illusionists' and the solid unity and resolve of the other 27 EU member states in dealing with the UK's exit are bad news for May and her brexit cohorts! I must say I quite like that Libdem idea to have a final EU referendum to let the people decide on accepting a hard brexit deal or opt for remain after all and don't leave the final say to a disaster of a Tory govt, big majority or not!!!

[hibeejim21]

I'm sure your right,but only because that's the way the argument has been framed by the tories and their right wing media allies.

Fact is the tories have nothing to face brexit with,but they are guaranteed to stir up xenophobic bullshit to cover their tracks and get their chums the best deal.

Anyway its done now. I have zero sympathy for the brexiters,they have no idea of the shite they face. **** em.

And that brings us full circle back to Corbyn!!  The Labour party (and Lib Dems) have to get the message across in a persuasive and factual manner but I am not convinced they have the stature or personality to do that.  Most ordinary people want their leaders to be statesman like, whatever that means these days, and for me Corbyn is that guy you would see down the local pub, nice guy, honest and well meaning, but not PM material.

Its quite odd how the English always defer to the tory, privileged elite as they are clearly more "statesmanlike" no matter how much they xxxx up the country.

Maybe its time we gave the gig to the nice guy you would meet down the boozer,especially when he is "honest and wellmeaning". Those seem like the qualities we could use.

[0762]

You mean the Tories who are the people 'who are born to lead' Jim!! How often I've heard that arrogant statement down the years from the 'posh political fraternity' who speak like they have corks stuck up their erses lol! And yet the damage and division they've inflicted on our country is immense! In the case of the current incumbent, May, she is an Oxford gal and another member of this elite group of people who believe this shit but she is just another lightweight politician, one of many who infest parliament, and certainly no great stateswoman!! More importantly for her, she is one of the good buddies within her own political party and that's one of the main reasons why she is the Tory PM!

[St Charles Owl]

Its quite odd how the English always defer to the tory, privileged elite as they are clearly more "statesmanlike" no matter how much they **** up the country.

Maybe its time we gave the gig to the nice guy you would meet down the boozer,especially when he is "honest and wellmeaning". Those seem like the qualities we could use.

So how do you break that cycle and thinking?? The last Labour leader to win a General Election, Tony Blair, was the one who appeared statesman like compared to the Labour leaders that preceded him and were all unelectable. Sure we can all say that the traits Corbyn has are good qualities but if the general public don't see him as a leader then he is not going to win. Most people want their leaders to be exceptional people, both in terms of intelligence, education and the way they come across, they don't want someone on their level and rightly or wrongly the Tories have for years done a better job of portraying and promoting their leaders as just that.

[0762]

It's called 'spin' and the Tories are certainly good at that. As for Tony Bliar? Don't get me going eh! Educated at Fettes College - another private ed politician and a known closet Tory who resurrected the Labour Party to electable status again but renamed as red Tories and played a huge part in damaging the credibility of the party beyond belief. The question arises: 'is there a credible political party to run the UK properly/effectively'? I don't believe there is one and that situation has been evident for a long time! Hence bring on Scottish independence asap and let the political mess continue without us!! The politics and rw media in England absolutely 'suck'! Lastly I notice that recent GDP analysis has alarmingly revealed economic growth has slowed down to 3%! As spritematt has previously commented - I hope some significant opposition starts using this type of criticism and lotsa other scathing condemnation of matters that should really matter to a significant proportion of the UK electorate!!! Surely the state of the UK economy matters!!!

[hibeejim21]

Its quite odd how the English always defer to the tory, privileged elite as they are clearly more "statesmanlike" no matter how much they **** up the country.

Maybe its time we gave the gig to the nice guy you would meet down the boozer,especially when he is "honest and wellmeaning". Those seem like the qualities we could use.

So how do you break that cycle and thinking??  The last Labour leader to win a General Election, Tony Blair, was the one who appeared statesman like compared to the Labour leaders that preceded him and were all unelectable.  Sure we can all say that the traits Corbyn has are good qualities but if the general public don't see him as a leader then he is not going to win.  Most people want their leaders to be exceptional people, both in terms of intelligence, education and the way they come across, they don't want someone on their level and rightly or wrongly the Tories have for years done a better job of portraying and promoting their leaders as just that.

I'm not disagreeing with you,i'm just pointing out that may is far from being 'exceptional' and this impression is built on a lie. She was a failure as home secretary and has offered nothing policy wise so far at all. Her approach to brexit has been utterly shambolic. The tories election strategy so far is to keep her as far away from the public as possible and to keep saying 'strong and stable'.

They are both poor politicians in my humble opinion,the only reason the thatcher lite option is in place is because none of the other tory 'big hitters' wanted tainted by brexit.

[0762]

May's strategy? I'm strong n stable, stable n strong , strong n stable..... AND???? The woman is not impressive at all and coming in with little rhetorical snippets like a 'coalition of chaos' just tries to disguise the mess within her own political party!