[spireitematt]

This independence initiative is NOT about hating the English and the union - it's cheap drivel I've previously listened to and scoffed at when it was used as one of many cheap political ploys to undermine the push for Scot Indy - a nonsensical piece of crap and England would remain as close trading partner together with the other UK partners!!! I've never seen many failed countries that became independent TBF and Scotland won't be one of them either!!! Does the UK expect to rejoin the EU when it becomes clear the Brexit solution goes 'tits up'?

No one knows if Brexit will go 'tits up'. No one knows if Scotland will go tits up but I will say Good Luck if you leave because I think you will need it.

[St Charles Owl]

I am still not convinced that the Brexit solution will go tits up!! The basis of a good deal will hinge on trade conditions and free travel, most other issues will be peripheral mainly because we didn't join the Euro. We import 220 billion pounds of product from other EU countries, with Germany alone accounting for 61 billion, and despite what rhetoric we may see coming out of both sides there will be no appetite from EU countries to negotiate a deal that does not see these imports continue!! The UK trade at an 86 billion pound deficit with the other EU nations, they actually have a lot more to lose with a bad deal than the UK does!!

[0762]

But it is all speculative TBF and my personal view is we have the wrong people in place to represent our interests and that will be proved when the serious negotiations begin and this Tory govt finds itself short of the expert skills to broker the best deal, a deal that the Eurocrats will not oblige under the negative circumstances of a British exit. In other words, there will be an 'economic hit' on the UK's trade operations and you'd better brace yourself for that impact particularly if May's predicted 'hard Brexit' comes about with a consequent huge impact on the value of the UK pound for starters! 'Smell the coffee' and welcome to the harsh reality of the Brexit dilemma!

[hibeejim21]

I want to know how Scotland can survive on there own. You have a deficit of nearly £15 billion you will have to deal with that yourselves as you won't be able to get any help off Westminster anymore. How are you going to pay the £350 million a week to join the EU? (that's if they let you in, pretty much doubt it) What currency will you have? because all new EU members after 2019 have to have the Euro because you won't be allowed to have the £. Will you have a welfare system? How are you going fund your own NHS? What happens if you leave the Union but the EU refuse you membership?

Its like reading a copy of the daily mail.


Deficit first of all. In 2010 the UK’s deficit was a bigger share of GDP (11%) than Scotland’s is in the latest GERS figures, but nobody said it proved the UK wasn’t a viable independent country did they ? The deficit issue is a total red herring,no country aims for a zero deficit. As long as the deficit isn’t always that high - which is the key issue and scotlands isn't .

Remember also the UK controls around 40% of Scotlands spend, it just doesn’t just generously gift Scotland the money for its deficit. It takes out borrowing in Scotland’s name, whether it’s for stuff Scotland actually wants/needs or not.... like ....nuclear submarines for instance. Full fiscal autonomy would see our deficit halfed.

Currency wise I think Scotland will go for the Scottish pound this time and have its own central bank pegged to sterling, with reference to Europe Scotland will likely aim for EFTA membership this time in the short term.

Its nowhere near as hopeless a scenario as you try to suggest. Its time we took back control.

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I am still not convinced that the Brexit solution will go tits up!!  The basis of a good deal will hinge on trade conditions and free travel, most other issues will be peripheral mainly because we didn't join the Euro.  We import 220 billion pounds of product from other EU countries, with Germany alone accounting for 61 billion,  and despite what rhetoric we may see coming out of both sides there will be no appetite from EU countries to negotiate a deal that does not see these imports continue!!  The UK trade at an 86 billion pound deficit with the other EU nations, they actually have a lot more to lose with a bad deal than the UK does!!

You are falling into the exact same trap that David Cameron did.The EU leaders haven't even begun to fight, and the UK is severely deluded about the strength of its negotiating position and about the goodwill it still enjoys in the EU. Macron and the dutch PM both hinted at this recently.

Personally, I think the next few years will see a lot of change in the EU. They will be forced to respond to Brexit, the rise of populism, etc. I believe the EU will improve much of what is wrong, and will become stronger - in many ways at our expense.

It's all going to go tits up fairly quickly for the UK, because the two negotiating positions are completely incompatible. And look at the calibre of people who is running it for us, totally underprepared and disorganised.... like a car load of PG tip chimps heading over the cliff.

Both major and blair have rung the alarm bells - and with very good reason because they know better than anyone what the EUs position is going to be on trade deals.

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"I just think this independence vote is all about hating the English and the Union. Also what happens if you fail? Do you expect to rejoin the Union?"
[/quote]



You really are chancing it with this "hating the English" pish. Which is based on nothing factual. I'm married to an English woman,and I have a great deal of respect and time for England and its people.

However the whole brexit narrative and movement in England has been incredibly abrasive and annoying,culminating in the PM going for a solution that appeases the right wing of her party rather than the devolved powers of Scotland and northern Ireland who have a lot to lose (in Irelands case it may even result in conflict)

Whether you like it or not the first minister has a mandate to ask that question and she always said she would if hard brexit emerged.

[0762]

Good comments Jim! I forgot to add that my missus is a Kentish belle and she actually voted Yes for Scot Indy in 2014. The main reason for that paradox was because of the shameless, scolding narrative that continued throughout the 'project fear' propaganda campaign which was an utter disgrace full of anti Scottish rhetoric and innuendo! I'm already listening to some of the same shameless c#### uttering the same anti Scottish shit as before and many of them supposedly 'representing the majority views and opinions of the Scottish people' - utter pish, a pro union viewpoint, and leave highly questionable opinion polls out of it as well as many pro Scotland voters within the Scottish population!!! I watched the SNP's Joanne Cherry 'play an absolute blinder' re Brexit and the latest SNP call for a referendum on last night's bbc Question Time in the face of some really antagonistic anti Scotland sections of the Bognor audience. I wish all voting Scots could've watched and listened to some of the disrespectful and vilifying comments made to this woman and I didn't think the host of this prog, Dimbleby, was at his impartial best to deal with it either!!! Cherry handled it like a Scottish storm trooper all the same!

[hibeejim21]

I thought cherry did very well too,and even though he's a tory toff I find rees-mogg kind of likeable in some odd way and I like listening to him.

But that's just my anti-English side coming through again!

[hibeejim21]

Just saw a senior Spanish MEP saying there that they would not block Scotland re-entering the EU if we voted for independence.

[spireitematt]

I want to know how Scotland can survive on there own. You have a deficit of nearly £15 billion you will have to deal with that yourselves as you won't be able to get any help off Westminster anymore. How are you going to pay the £350 million a week to join the EU? (that's if they let you in, pretty much doubt it) What currency will you have? because all new EU members after 2019 have to have the Euro because you won't be allowed to have the £. Will you have a welfare system? How are you going fund your own NHS? What happens if you leave the Union but the EU refuse you membership?

Its like reading a copy of the daily mail.

I don't read the Daily Mail and wouldn't believe anything which is printed in there because all it is is Tory agenda. It's Anti-Labour, Anti-immigrants and they seem to blame everything on immigrants and label everyone on benefits as scroungers. Not forgetting this is a newspaper which supported Hitler, Oswald Mosley and the blackshirts.

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I thought cherry did very well too,and even though he's a tory toff I find rees-mogg kind of likeable in some odd way and I like listening to him.

But that's just my anti-English side coming through again!

Jacob Rees-Mogg is the only Tory I like he doesn't use insults and he sounds like he has time travelled from the 1920s.

I apologise if I have offended you or may have caused offense by saying

I just think this independence vote is all about hating the English and the Union. Also what happens if you fail? Do you expect to rejoin the Union?

[0762]

I wasn't aware of the Daily Mail's/Rag's black history of support for certain infamous politicians and dictators but it's not a total surprise after reading so much RW drivel down the years on their front page headlines, while shopping at any local supermarket. It must draw some kinda significant readership which is baffling but scary TBF! I wouldn't subscribe to this 'rag' if it was offered to me for free!!

[St Charles Owl]

British newspapers have always been biased, one way or the other!! In this age of online news and accessibility, does anyone actually buy a newspaper for the news anymore?? I would bet that a high proportion of readers these day buy it for the sports pages!!