[St Charles Owl]

Yes, I think what Spain says at this stage or even during another referendum campaign will be all rhetoric designed to try to stop any further grumblings from their regions. You are right in terms of the actual situation, Scotland has always been a separate entity from England etc while under the UK umbrella, that is simply not the case in Spain.

[0762]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39293513
And Theresa May rebuffs the 1st Minister's request as expected and 'calls Nicola's bluff'! I think the UK PM is risking her own position by actually asserting there will be a good deal for the people of Scotland and the UK but no clarity on the subject. Her gambit is based on the assertion that the majority of the Scottish population is not for pushing on with a second referendum. However, next week there will be a successful democratic vote in the Scottish Parliament for a Section 30 order to be activated with the time schedule/constraints stipulated and that will surely force the pressure on May to reconsider her position! IMO ratchet up the pressure on the Tories re Brexit negativity issues like immigration, illegal electioneering etc and start the 'bun fighting' on what I'd term a constitutional dilemma and 'rack up' the debate re Scotland's interests and the way ahead - IMO well thought out by the SNP govt btw!! Also I note the SNP conference is coming up this weekend - well timed eh with the Scottish govt being 'pushed around' by the UK govt and 'snubbed by the Tories' - cute politics indeed!
Lastly note that Daily Mail/Rag headline down south - NICOLA STURGEON, THE MOST DANGEROUS WOMAN IN BRITAIN! Awwwwww - spoiling the English Brexit 'mess up' party eh!!! Well f### them big time!! They couldnae run a piss up in a brewery, let alone negotiate the country out of the EU!
The potential reunification of Ireland could be May's next 'headache' and it will be curious to see the PM fighting battles on three different fronts!

[hibeejim21]

Nicola Sturgeon
@NicolaSturgeon
One last point - if PM thinks we won't know terms of Brexit by autumn next year, she must think her own timetable will fail.

Good point Nicola - she is clearly panicking.

I thought this would happen,but the Scottish parliament should call one anyway. The brexit poll was not 'legally binding' and was advisory status too,yet the right wing of the tory party and their paymasters Murdoch and dacre are pushing it through anyway.

xxxx em - call it anyway.

[0762]

Nicola's main comment this afternoon - 'Historians could look back and say they witnessed the day that the fate of the Union was sealed'! It's like going back in time to the worst days of Margaret Thatcher!
Also Ruth Davidson's u-turn on denying the right of the Scottish people to decide is astounding and another shameless act that this Scottish Tory quisling can add to lotsa previous shameless comments that she has uttered during and after 2014! I can't stand this woman - a lightweight politician who is way out of her league in Scottish politics!!! And Labour's Kezia Dugdale is not far behind in that regard either!

[hibeejim21]

I dont understand Scottish labours position. Corbyn has already said labour will not oppose the Scottish parliaments decision in the house if they go for it.

Labour is dead in Scotland.

[spireitematt]

I want to know how Scotland can survive on there own. You have a deficit of nearly £15 billion you will have to deal with that yourselves as you won't be able to get any help off Westminster anymore. How are you going to pay the £350 million a week to join the EU? (that's if they let you in, pretty much doubt it) What currency will you have? because all new EU members after 2019 have to have the Euro because you won't be allowed to have the £. Will you have a welfare system? How are you going fund your own NHS? What happens if you leave the Union but the EU refuse you membership?

[hfc]

Always thought and still do think that Scotland wanting to be in Europe will be more problematic than certain people are letting on. It's not true to say that all the yes voters wanted to stay in the EU. THEY DON'T! Also the 50% +1 case is not getting any easier by yes voters (some) deciding not to vote at all or in some cases switching sides. as the Fire and Frying pan analogy kicks in.
Independence from the UK is no longer as appealing for some, like it or not though I will still vote yes myself should the vote come around.

[0762]

Read the previous comprehensive White Paper, Scotland's Future, and be enlightened that Scotland can indeed go it alone by applying the appropriate full fiscal measures that are normally utilised by any independent state. The deficit would be negotiated proportionately and taken on board accordingly!! Btw look at the huge deficit and MASSIVE debts of the UK gov - retrospectively how do they survive??? Scotland is also entitled to a fair share of UK assets if it became independent. We would ensure that our resources are working for all the Scottish people - our resources are currently 'pooled' but not fairly shared. Also UK trade would not cease, contrary to the scaremongering comments/tactics that come out of pro union 'mouth pieces'!! Massive 'inward investment' are key words that would enhance the Scottish economy - businesses will not cease to function, another peddled fallacy! Also Scotland's renewable energy strategy is well up with the best in Europe -we are indeed energy secure and I think we still have more to offer on the natural energy resources 'front'! Note that the Westminster system has created a country with some of the biggest regional differences in GDP per head of any EU nation with growth concentrated in London and the SE. We can do better as a separate state and with the collective will to 'go it alone' and take on the necessary responsibilities and political balance to achieve genuine social balances incl a fully inclusive modern single tier education system that favours all our kids and not a select few!! Finland is a prime example of how to change it for the better decades ago!  I could go on re the solid reasoning for Scot Indy but I'll end it by saying that neighbouring independent nations, such as Norway and Denmark, clearly enjoy an independence 'bonus' that allows them to deliver fairer societies - they are able to  to provide more targeted support for families with kids and better levels of care for older citizens, and deliver measures to boost their economies, support higher standards of living and create more jobs - these independence gains did not come overnight. They required effort and a focus on what was best for their societies, but they are a good indicator of what can be achieved when Scotland becomes an independent nation too.
PS: The currency issue is a f###### 'red herring' - always was and it can be resolved with the appropriate decisive action that can be embraced by trading partners in a civil manner in order to make it work!

[spireitematt]

Read the previous comprehensive White Paper, Scotland's Future, and be enlightened that Scotland can indeed go it alone by applying the appropriate full fiscal measures that are normally utilised by any independent state. The deficit would be negotiated proportionately and taken on board accordingly!! Btw look at the huge deficit and MASSIVE debts of the UK gov - retrospectively how do they survive??? Scotland is also entitled to a fair share of UK assets if it became independent. We would ensure that our resources are working for all the Scottish people - our resources are currently 'pooled' but not fairly shared. Also UK trade would not cease, contrary to the scaremongering comments/tactics that come out of pro union 'mouth pieces'!! Massive 'inward investment' are key words that would enhance the Scottish economy - businesses will not cease to function, another peddled fallacy! Also Scotland's renewable energy strategy is well up with the best in Europe -we are indeed energy secure and I think we still have more to offer on the natural energy resources 'front'! Note that the Westminster system has created a country with some of the biggest regional differences in GDP per head of any EU nation with growth concentrated in London and the SE. We can do better as a separate state and with the collective will to 'go it alone' and take on the necessary responsibilities and political balance to achieve genuine social balances incl a fully inclusive modern single tier education system that favours all our kids and not a select few!! Finland is a prime example of how to change it for the better decades ago!  I could go on re the solid reasoning for Scot Indy but I'll end it by saying that neighbouring independent nations, such as Norway and Denmark, clearly enjoy an independence 'bonus' that allows them to deliver fairer societies - they are able to  to provide more targeted support for families with kids and better levels of care for older citizens, and deliver measures to boost their economies, support higher standards of living and create more jobs - these independence gains did not come overnight. They required effort and a focus on what was best for their societies, but they are a good indicator of what can be achieved when Scotland becomes an independent nation too.
PS: The currency issue is a f###### 'red herring' - always was and it can be resolved with the appropriate decisive action that can be embraced by trading partners in a civil manner in order to make it work!

Also ALL EU member states have to agree for a new member to join and Spain won't want an independent Scotland in the EU because of Catalonia. Norway are in the single market which means they are not independent as they have to follow EU law and accept freedom of movement. Why would you want independence to rule yourselves but then hand it over to the EU? The deficit in the UK survives by more borrowing which then goes to the National debt.

The currency issue is not a 'red herring' All EU members after 2020 have to adopt the Euro as there currency.

I just think this independence vote is all about hating the English and the Union. Also what happens if you fail? Do you expect to rejoin the Union?

[0762]

This independence initiative is NOT about hating the English and the union - it's cheap drivel I've previously listened to and scoffed at when it was used as one of many cheap political ploys to undermine the push for Scot Indy - a nonsensical piece of crap and England would remain as a close trading partner together with the other UK partners!!! I've never seen many failed countries that became independent TBF and Scotland won't be one of them either!!! Does the UK expect to rejoin the EU when it becomes clear the Brexit solution goes 'tits up'? Btw the Spanish govt has never formally objected to Scotland becoming a member of the EU as the Scottish position is different to the regional prob re Catalonia anyway! Google it and be enlightened!
Back to the currency issue - how does one even consider a poor performing UK pound that will be rock bottom as the Brexit process gradually degrades it's value!! Think about it and who will actually be in a stronger position! The Scottish gov will have to consider the options very carefully but they are doing it as we debate.