[St Charles Owl]

Come on Saint Charles Owl!!! You ARE being a tad disingenuous re that dismissive response!!! Jim listed just a few of the 'good things' that the EU has attained or influenced within the UK and a lotta this stuff was drowned out by all the shameless RW scaremongering that was uttered by the likes of Johnson and Farage and others. I'd turn your insinuation on it's head and say I never perceived a persuasive argument to leave and that's from a Scottish perspective!! And Devongone, all I'd say to you is come to Scotland and study the culture and society that have evolved down the years, interlinked with the multi-culturalism that is embedded within it. We are still closely linked to Europe far more than you realise!! It's a historical fact and long may that association continue as well as an amicable association with our UK neighbours.

I said they were good points, they were but I would bet 9 out of 10 voters don't know anything about any of them. Plus 9 out of 10 voters would also be fully aware of the stupid things that have been put in place by the EU over the years because they hit the headlines every time. You also cannot say that Leave didn't make a persuasive argument, they did, they turned every poll on its head and they won!! They may have done it with scare tactics and untruths but they had a plan, they shouted about it and they got their message across, I saw no real evidence of any plan from Remain, it just feels like they thought all along they would win and consequently they didn't fight on behalf of the EU and the EU didn't fight on behalf of itself.

[0762]

I said the leave campaign did not provide a persuasive argument for me SCO. They also did not make a persuasive argument for almost 50% of UK voters who participated!!! Hence my suggestion that a mandatory vote would've wiped out any doubt whatsoever that we would ever be leaving the EU at all!!!! It's another element of how we work our voting system in this country!! I agree that the leave campaign drew an 'obedient audience' but they should never have won this referendum and there's a majority opinion within our population that concurs with that view! However, the consequence is we are now a polarised nation! How tragic and unnecessary - all started and created by a Tory arsehole called David Cameron!

[St Charles Owl]

The UK isn't polarized, might be moving that way but its not there yet. It is polarized on this one topic maybe but not many other things!!! Now if you want to see polarized, just come to the US!! The US has just 2 political parties and they are literally at the opposite end of the spectrum on a whole raft of issues if not just about every issue. There are so few things they agree on, there is much more commonality in UK politics than here!!

[0762]

Depends on which part of the country one lives in SCO! However, I'd say that people in the UK generally 'get on with it' and discretion prevails for the 'silent majority' within the population. Will it change? I don't think so but I don't assume this with any certainty! It would require a major destabiliser, a 'spark' to 'stir the masses'. Any UK govt will endeavour to avoid this situation at all cost!

[St Charles Owl]

Yes it does!! I actually think that the multiparty system in the UK prevents some of the polarization, whereas the two party system over here almost by nature promotes it!!! Over here there is no third party to run to for a different opinion, or as a protest vote or just to keep the other two parties a bit more honest!! I know the UK political scene is dominated by the Conservatives and Labour but the rise of the SNP in Scotland and the rise of the Lib Dems a few years back generally makes sure that the extremists on the left and the right do not gain power.

[hibeejim21]

"the UK isn't polarized"


You cant be serious.

[hibeejim21]

Yes it does!!  I actually think that the multiparty system in the UK prevents some of the polarization, whereas the two party system over here almost by nature promotes it!!!  Over here there is no third party to run to for a different opinion, or as a protest vote or just to keep the other two parties a bit more honest!!  I know the UK political scene is dominated by the Conservatives and Labour but the rise of the SNP in Scotland and the rise of the Lib Dems a few years back generally makes sure that the extremists on the left and the right do not gain power.

I would take independence right now. Be the greatest gift we could give our children.

[0762]

Ditto Jim! The rise of the SNP is not a 'glitch' either! It has been a gradual long journey from the 1950s onwards with all the angst that the party has taken from past Westminster govts and political parties incl that recent attack by Cruella against Angus Robertson and the SNP. Now the SNP has become a 'serious threat'to these antagonistic ########! Even last night on bbc QT I noticed another 'wee dig' against Sturgeon from the audience because our 1st Minister's dialogue doesn't suit the Little England mentality that is so different compared with the attiitude and pluralism that we are accustomed to in Scotland!! KEEP AT IT NICOLA - YOU'VE SUSSED IT FROM DAY ONE!!!

[hibeejim21]

I used to be solid labour up until the scottish referendum,i actually think scottish labour are even more of a liability than corbyn and co at the moment.

[Devongone]

As the man who once said, "He'll get nowhere. Even the Labour Party will see he's just a careerist!", the He in question being Tony Blair (uuuuuuuuugggggghhhhhh!) my right to comment on anything political hangs by a very slim thread. Corbyn's okay, he's a decent man, he's pointlessly ditched forty years of opposition to the EU to try and keep his party together. He shouldn't be leader and he didn't want to be (which also makes him more trustworthy than all those who only want to lead). He's only there because Mr McDonnell had already done leadership contests for the left and had also suffered a heart attack ........ and Labour's idiot right can't distinguish between socialism and liberalism so went out of their bourgeois way to enable him garner enough votes to stand ...... Labour hasn't got anyone better, three candidates put together couldn't match him and Shami headed straight for The Lords instead of the Commons. In Scotland Labour weighed the votes and didn't listen to the voters and now quite rightly it needs just an abacus and not a weighbridge.

If Scotland wants to be independent and thinks it is capable of independence, then it should be. If, as an independent state with its own currency, it then decides to spend years negotiating its way into the EU and its daft failing currency, then that's Scotland's business. I'm for self-determination and against imperialism. When Scotland then decides to institute another referendum to get the hell out of the madhouse it joined, I'll support that too ...... if by some miracle I have remained alive.