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I also reckon Brexit won't happen. It doesn't matter who is in charge of the UK negotiations. No clever right-minded politician (if such a person exists) will want to be anywhere near them. The Tories will be kicked out before next year is out and Labour (no matter what they say) will not carry out the withdrawal as it will cost them support as well.
Our special relationship with the good old USA is under threat from the actions of Donald Trump and we'll be too insecure to survive on our own. So we'll turn to the United States of Europe for a new special relationship and go crawling back like a jilted lover gullibly seduced by false promises.
Cabbage is still good for you
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One things for sure, this isn't shaping up as the brexit that was promised. If i had voted leave i really wouldnt be happy right now.
What may has done (and actually i don't think she did much but go along with what the EU proposed to keep her in power) is absolute nonsense. Sturgeon was right when she said we are paying 50 billion to get to a position to negotiate a weaker trade deal.
The coming weeks are going to be very interesting indeed and its entirely possible the wheels could come off completely.
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13-12-2017, 16:55
(This post was last modified: 13-12-2017, 16:56 by Devongone.)
Though I voted LEAVE because the European Union always looks like a similar step to a permanent Tory government, I always thought the two realistic options were:-
NO DEAL
NO BREXIT
I think NO BREXIT is currently edging ahead - the more pusillanimous Mrs May becomes.
I'm not convinced either side has the capacity to negotiate a deal with any chance of being approved. And I'm slightly less convinced that we have the guts to depart for free in 2019.
If during the intervening period the Tories go mad and throw themselves out of power, I'll be left to vote Labour, because you've got to want to see what John McDonnell would do if he was really Chancellor haven't you, even though I'm sure they'd negotiate an expensive and crap Brexit deal to which I'm opposed in order to respect the wishes of the idiot electorate.
And we've got the cheek to hawk democracy around the world.
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Thats a sore one for the government. Even the labour brexiters were whipped into voting for the amendment. It means a hard brexit is going to be very difficult to achieve now coupled with the irish border issue. Amendment 7 enshrines into law a meaningful vote now In other words Parliament can instruct the government to renegotiate and brexit could be reversed.
The right wing press this morning have gone into meltdown. wah wah wah -we want our brexit. An utter disgrace.
Theresa May doesn't have the political skills to turn this around,she faces total humiliation in brussels next week.
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14-12-2017, 12:33
(This post was last modified: 14-12-2017, 13:59 by 0762.)
The Daily Mail today - a bunch of moaning RW 'fannies' lol! Great to see this after all the shit they've been printing down the years!
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I'm not sure which way the benefits of last night flow. If May is further weakened then that should head us down the road to a worse potential Brexit deal in the eyes of Brexiteers. If they suspect a pay-loads-of-money-to-have-no-influence Andrex Brexit is on the cards almost anything could happen. Tory Brexiteers are far more used to rebelling than the wimps the Daily Mail is lining up against the wall ......... and I think they are prepared to take any consequences of rebellion too ....
Next step Tories withdraw 29th March 2019 Bill? Or sack Chief Whip? Or carry on and say vote this down and we'll call an election? Or carry on and Chief Whip threatens to reveal every miscreance in the rebels' history, from spanking in the dorm' to paedophilia?
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14-12-2017, 19:31
(This post was last modified: 14-12-2017, 19:42 by Devongone.)
Yes I agree, is it 19th not 29th March 2019 by the way, I'll remember that! Of course it also means that anyone else - Remoaner to Brexit Buccaneer can frustrate or bring down ANY negotiated settlement ...... so a Dulcolax Brexit that might appeal to Vince Cable could also get wiped in theory. Equally it also means doesn't it that if the government gets on and negotiates whatever bunkum it is after it might then say to its small number of potential rebels, go on defeat it again and we'll call an election. They think Mutually Assured Destruction works for Trident, so why not Brexit?
I suppose it does edge us slightly towards No Brexit at the moment, which is what Dominic Grieve and Ken Clarke actually want, but if British people DID actually want a Brexit means Brexit when they voted in the referendum the Tories might suffer big-time if three years down the line the result of that vote was no change. And it raises the question would Labour stay with the rebels? Last night for instance Mr Skinner went through the lobby with his party. Will he do that if he is effectively killing Brexit? And he's not the only Bennite. And will Labour be adopting that same position after another 18 months of reading about Macron and Juncker's superstate, because the Mail and others won't be behind the door in maligning the EU and its plans if they perceive we might not leave at all ....... ? Other than Starmer most of Labour's front bench appear pretty malleable and deliberately quite nebulous on where they'd take us.
Unfortunately I don't think it'll be down to logic, negotiation or debate. The irony for me of those who think people voted LEAVE on a mere whim, is that most of our national and international decisions are arrived at through protracted processes that merely foster the illusion that they were arrived at by some higher and better means. For all their expensive suits and flights to Brussels their judgement is in no way superior to that of the common man or woman and far less impartial. IMO of course! (There's very little evidence that either knowing more, or more protracted decision-making processes result in better decisions.)
