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And tonight Puidgemont falls short of formally declaring independence for Catalonia, to the disappointment of many pro indy supporters, and opens up a welcome bid for dialogue with Rajoy and the Spanish govt - a 'tough decision' by a wise man IMO. Follow the pragmatic advice uttered by many international leaders etc and lets see if such an intransigent govt will 'cut any slack' on this issue. The game of political chess has begun and lets see if Rajoy and his cronies are drawn into a 'check mate' position that provides Puidgemont and his advisors with a ready made response after following this line of action and they 'hit the moral high ground' as well!! Interesting politics ahead in Spain eh!
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This is by far the best and most savvy move he could make at this stage. The international community is watching all this play out I still believe he needs to agree with the Spanish government to hold a proper and binding referendum. After the events of the past few weeks all the pressure is on the Spanish government to find a solution to this either with a referendum or more devolved powers if that is acceptable to the Catalan government. I think the former is the likely outcome.
Will be interesting to also see whether the EU keep to their stance of no EU admittance for Catalan and also whether the companies that announced they are moving HQ out of Catalan reverse their decision.
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(11-10-2017, 05:14)St Charles Owl Wrote: This is by far the best and most savvy move he could make at this stage. The international community is watching all this play out I still believe he needs to agree with the Spanish government to hold a proper and binding referendum. After the events of the past few weeks all the pressure is on the Spanish government to find a solution to this either with a referendum or more devolved powers if that is acceptable to the Catalan government. I think the former is the likely outcome.
Will be interesting to also see whether the EU keep to their stance of no EU admittance for Catalan and also whether the companies that announced they are moving HQ out of Catalan reverse their decision.
Rajoy has made it clear today there will be no dialogue on a referendum.
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Yes, I just read about that. No idea how this is going to unfold, one side is going to have to compromise sooner or later, and lets hope that happens before we reach the point of troops on the streets!!! Spain is in an economic mess, has been for years, this is just going to make that even worse for the country as a whole and will also put more strain on the Euro and the EU at a time when Brexit is already causing problems.
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So the Spanish Govt has asked for clarification from the Catalan Government on whether they have officially declared independence or not, if they have then they will invoke Article 155 of their constitution!! Bit of a Mexican standoff going on in this one now with each side trying to push the other to some sort of resolution. Can't see this one ending well the way it is going and hopefully its all bluster at this point!
Section 155
1. If a Self-governing Community does not fulfil the obligations imposed upon it by the Constitution or other laws, or acts in a way that is seriously prejudicial to the general interest of Spain, the Government, after having lodged a complaint with the President of the Self-governing Community and failed to receive satisfaction therefore, may, following approval granted by the overall majority of the Senate, take all measures necessary to compel the Community to meet said obligations, or to protect the above-mentioned general interest.
2. With a view to implementing the measures provided for in the foregoing paragraph, the Government may issue instructions to all the authorities of the Self-governing Communities.
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12-10-2017, 14:46
(This post was last modified: 13-10-2017, 13:51 by 0762.)
It has developed in exactly the way I expected so far Saint Charles Owl. I never perceived that a referendum would ever be brokered by Rajoy and his govt cohorts and that has been confirmed just as I previously referred to the fact that dealing with an intransigent government kinda calls into question the whole idea of democratically allowing or disallowing the right to vote in an autonomous region where the people want to have the vote and 'be done with it' one way or another but without Spain's interference. Puigdemont is presenting his chess move of 'following all avenues' to debate the current position in Catalonia and possibly resolve it. On the other hand, Rajoy is actually remaining intransigent and trying to 'pull' a declaration of independence. I don't think I've heard such extreme dialogue, such as sedition being mentioned, since WW2. Puigdemont will delay until all his efforts are exhausted v an intransigent opponent who has never showed great respect for Catalonia or Catalan govt officials for years and that is another part of the problem!
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13-10-2017, 13:55
(This post was last modified: 13-10-2017, 13:57 by 0762.)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/o...puigdemont
And, hey presto, Puigdemont does indeed proceed to expose the intransigence and extreme nature of his opponents in Madrid and displays it to a world audience and of course the mass population who support him in Catalonia. IMO this Catalan leader has been well prepared for this moment and the 'plot thickens'!
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14-10-2017, 19:19
(This post was last modified: 14-10-2017, 23:23 by 0762.)
Monday appears to be a crucial deadline day where something has to be decided and Rajoy and his cohorts still holding to a 'hard line' by setting this 'four day deadline' for Puigdemont to effectively back down. It will be interesting to see how this political 'game of chess' finally unfolds esp as the Catalans have held to a peaceful campaign throughout.
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18-10-2017, 23:39
(This post was last modified: 18-10-2017, 23:52 by 0762.)
Tomorrow now looks like the moment for Puigdemont to make his crucial move after the expected intransigence of Spain's PM, Rajoy, prevails further with more extreme measures taken - a rejection of mediation, the highly questionable arrest and imprisonment of two separatist leaders, Jordi Sanchez and Jordi Cuixart, on trumped up charges re hindering Civil Police incusions to stop the referendum, still stationing 10k military police personnel in cruise ships off Barcelona harbour and the port of Tarragona, the indictment of 800 Catalan town Mayors for collaboration re setting up an illegal referendum, shutting down some 200 Catalan govt and civil society websites and dozens of young people charged with having replicated the removed web sites. The one possible source to defuse this situ is ironically the EU, an organisation of member states that has not 'covered itself in glory' so far but has a chance to remedy things and 'reel in Rajoy' through it's European Council, which will gather all EU heads of state tomorrow and Friday. If de-escalation of these events is not requested then I think Puigdemont will have no choice but to lift the suspension of his announcement to declare independence. Do it and at the same time welcome the mass celebrations on the streets of Catalonia. Sad to say, simultaneously 'break open the gun and ammo boxes', because it's clear that the people and politicians are dealing with a vicious, desperate govt that seems to favour any extreme action to thwart the self-determination of an autonomous region like Catalonia. I suspect Puigdemont and his allies have not prepared for this eventuality as his 'peace movement' has proved to be an admirable ploy to progress. However, I think history has proved that such a defence can't be ignored or 'the aggressor' will be given the freedom to 'trample all over you' unless you mobilise your mass population and resources and use their support to your advantage. Nobody wants civil disorder in such a wealthy region of Spain but it could well be inevitable unless the international community intervenes on behalf of the oppressed EU citizens located in this region!
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Breaking :
Spain’s prime minister, Mariano Rajoy, has asked the Spanish senate for authorisation to fire the Catalan president and his cabinet as Madrid prepares to assume control of the region
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