https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/to...b5a85c4b74
All these union leaning morons, potential Tory leaders, with a common theme that they "won't allow Scotland/the Scot govt to have a vote on their own democratic right to vote for Scotindy next year"??????????????????????????? Hunt - Not in the next ten years???????????? Tugendhat - No, it's a distraction, but no time deficit specified??? I hope millions of Scots like myself are watching and listening to the whole contemptuous, disrespectful way our sovereign country is being regarded/treated by a bullying neighbour/govt down south that is totally "out of order" on this whole issue - the disregard/disrespect is absolutely glaring and outrageous!! WE SHOULD NOT REQUIRE THEIR PERMISSION AT ALL!!!!!!!
I'm gradually coming to the conclusion we need to go through a United Nations Charter route if we are really gonna be serious re our quest for self-determination and get away from these moronic Tories (And Labour!!!! Same undemocratic theme!!!!), the next political group of decepticons who are trying to flog the latest notion/con of a revitalised Britain embracing all the people of the UK because Johnson's govt failed to do that?????? OTHER TORY AND LABOUR GOVTS FAILED TO DO THAT WELL BEFORE JOHNSON EVER ARRIVED ON THE SCENE!!! Also Brexit is a huge factor in creating this economic and constitutional mess!!! Conveniently ignored by all these morons who are still shamelessly flying that despicable Brexit banner as well!!! Moving to the referendum, how can just holding a referendum affect the UK constitution anyway???? If they hold a referendum, and the country votes to remain, then nothing changes and the constitution remains exactly the same plus the referendum has not interfered with it. Even if Scotland votes to leave , nothing changes. On the day after the result, we will still be part of the UK, bound by the same laws and subject to the same govt institutions. Again, the constitution will not have changed! All the referendum does is allow the people of Scotland to express an opinion. Therefore, since holding a referendum cannot change the constitution, WHICH IS WHAT IS RESERVED AT WESTMINSTER, then surely it can't be illegal to do something that doesn't interfere with a reserved matter??? It's only the actions taken after the referendum that affect the constitution. That's when Nicola goes to the Brit govt and asks to leave the Union, "Can we start negotiations"? The Brit govt then has one of two options - the PM can consent to change the constitution in such a way that Scotland doesn't need to remain a part of it - and begin negotiations. OR THE PM CAN REFUSE TO ALLOW SCOTLAND TO LEAVE I.E. YEARS OF PEACEFUL CAMPAIGNING FOR OUR OWN SELF-DETERMINATION HAVE FINALLY COME TO AN END AND GOD ONLY KNOWS WHERE THAT WOULD TAKE US!! Again, whichever way it goes, IT'S WESTMINSTER THAT MAKES THE DECISION TO CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION, BECAUSE THE CONSTITUTION IS RESERVED TO THEM. Scotland will not have interfered with that reserved matter. The way I perceive this now is that when the Scotland Act was mooted and the constitution was reserved to Westminster, the voluntary Union was relinquished and a compulsory Union was established - either we made a mistake in accepting such a qualification , placed on whether or not we can leave or must remain in this fractured Union of unequal partners, or we were craftily conned!!!!!! It seems we have, since that time, been obliged to remain as part of the UK UNLESS WESTMINSTER LETS US LEAVE - ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGEOUS IN A PROPER CIVILISED DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM OF COOPERATION. Therefore, reflecting back to line 5 of my thread, I think we should already be making representations to the United Nations who state that every country has the right to decide its own future - JUST LISTEN TO THAT COMMON REMARK BEING MADE BY BRIT GOVT AND LABOUR UNIONISTS RE THE STATUS OF UKRAINE AS A SOVEREIGN COUNTRY???????? It reeks of downright hypocrisy and different rules/obligation re a sovereign home country called Scotland. As it stands, it appears to me that we could well be powerless to leave unless we can get something established through the international courts. To my Scottish members on this board, I'll beg the question, "Am I just introducing complications where they don't exist"?
All these union leaning morons, potential Tory leaders, with a common theme that they "won't allow Scotland/the Scot govt to have a vote on their own democratic right to vote for Scotindy next year"??????????????????????????? Hunt - Not in the next ten years???????????? Tugendhat - No, it's a distraction, but no time deficit specified??? I hope millions of Scots like myself are watching and listening to the whole contemptuous, disrespectful way our sovereign country is being regarded/treated by a bullying neighbour/govt down south that is totally "out of order" on this whole issue - the disregard/disrespect is absolutely glaring and outrageous!! WE SHOULD NOT REQUIRE THEIR PERMISSION AT ALL!!!!!!!
I'm gradually coming to the conclusion we need to go through a United Nations Charter route if we are really gonna be serious re our quest for self-determination and get away from these moronic Tories (And Labour!!!! Same undemocratic theme!!!!), the next political group of decepticons who are trying to flog the latest notion/con of a revitalised Britain embracing all the people of the UK because Johnson's govt failed to do that?????? OTHER TORY AND LABOUR GOVTS FAILED TO DO THAT WELL BEFORE JOHNSON EVER ARRIVED ON THE SCENE!!! Also Brexit is a huge factor in creating this economic and constitutional mess!!! Conveniently ignored by all these morons who are still shamelessly flying that despicable Brexit banner as well!!! Moving to the referendum, how can just holding a referendum affect the UK constitution anyway???? If they hold a referendum, and the country votes to remain, then nothing changes and the constitution remains exactly the same plus the referendum has not interfered with it. Even if Scotland votes to leave , nothing changes. On the day after the result, we will still be part of the UK, bound by the same laws and subject to the same govt institutions. Again, the constitution will not have changed! All the referendum does is allow the people of Scotland to express an opinion. Therefore, since holding a referendum cannot change the constitution, WHICH IS WHAT IS RESERVED AT WESTMINSTER, then surely it can't be illegal to do something that doesn't interfere with a reserved matter??? It's only the actions taken after the referendum that affect the constitution. That's when Nicola goes to the Brit govt and asks to leave the Union, "Can we start negotiations"? The Brit govt then has one of two options - the PM can consent to change the constitution in such a way that Scotland doesn't need to remain a part of it - and begin negotiations. OR THE PM CAN REFUSE TO ALLOW SCOTLAND TO LEAVE I.E. YEARS OF PEACEFUL CAMPAIGNING FOR OUR OWN SELF-DETERMINATION HAVE FINALLY COME TO AN END AND GOD ONLY KNOWS WHERE THAT WOULD TAKE US!! Again, whichever way it goes, IT'S WESTMINSTER THAT MAKES THE DECISION TO CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION, BECAUSE THE CONSTITUTION IS RESERVED TO THEM. Scotland will not have interfered with that reserved matter. The way I perceive this now is that when the Scotland Act was mooted and the constitution was reserved to Westminster, the voluntary Union was relinquished and a compulsory Union was established - either we made a mistake in accepting such a qualification , placed on whether or not we can leave or must remain in this fractured Union of unequal partners, or we were craftily conned!!!!!! It seems we have, since that time, been obliged to remain as part of the UK UNLESS WESTMINSTER LETS US LEAVE - ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGEOUS IN A PROPER CIVILISED DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM OF COOPERATION. Therefore, reflecting back to line 5 of my thread, I think we should already be making representations to the United Nations who state that every country has the right to decide its own future - JUST LISTEN TO THAT COMMON REMARK BEING MADE BY BRIT GOVT AND LABOUR UNIONISTS RE THE STATUS OF UKRAINE AS A SOVEREIGN COUNTRY???????? It reeks of downright hypocrisy and different rules/obligation re a sovereign home country called Scotland. As it stands, it appears to me that we could well be powerless to leave unless we can get something established through the international courts. To my Scottish members on this board, I'll beg the question, "Am I just introducing complications where they don't exist"?