[spireitematt]

Do you really think May was a Remainer, or even is a Remainer?

Do you really think Corbyn is a Remainer? He certainly was absolutely anti-EU whilst Tony Benn was alive. But then so was John McDonnell! And I have to admit to being baffled by how many Momentum supporters are Remainers - I know a lot of them being young have never known anything else - but I cannot see how any of the ambitions of a growing EU can contribute to the achievement of socialism. It is hard enough to see how voting Labour and joining the party achieves that goal!

But you're right, everyone had a different vision of what Brexit was and what it might be like, because there'd never been a Frexit or a Grexit, or a Spexit before. I don't see anything particularly abhorrent in asking the peoples' opinion again. But equally you could make all the same arguments about any election we've ever had. No one ever knew what it would mean and they were always lied to and governments either ignored or twisted every promise made .............

Significantly in the past when we've faced important questions like should Capital Punishment be discontinued we haven't asked the people ........ because politicians knew the people would give the answer they thought was wrong and bind them forever. But where that thought leads us I've no idea.

I certainly can't see how the path opens up for us not to leave the EU, but I've great faith that the voice of Capital will eventually outweigh the voice of the people or democracy.

May certainly was a remainer,and has only grasped the Brexit nettle because of her lust for power. Corbyn is clearly ambivalent about the whole thing, which is xxxx incredible really.

Socialism is entirely possible within the EU, Portugal are proving that right now. You should listen to David lammy's speech from today - he makes it clear that there is no left wing case for Brexit.

Have you seen the amount of job losses and relocations already ?

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The problem with another referendum or people's vote is the first referendum was so divisive that another referendum could be worse.

The demographics will keep changing as well. You could ask the question in 5 years time and it could be remain and you could ask the question in 10 years time and it could be leave. Young people are very left wing but when they mature and grow up they move towards centre and then to the right.

Everyone voted Remain and Leave for different reasons. Some voted Remain to carry on with the status quo, some voted Remain because they would like to see a Federal Europe and some voted Remain because they are Eurosceptic but believe we could try and reform it from the inside. Some voted Leave because they want to come out of the EU altogether, some voted Leave because of immigration, some voted Leave because they don't want to be part of a Federal Europe.

If the ardent Remainers want to win a 2nd referendum or a "people's vote" instead of looking down on people who voted Leave calling them "racists", "bigots", "didn't know what they were voting for" etc they need to debate them and get them to come round to there way of thinking. This is why Leave and Trump won because instead of debating one another like grown ups they call each other names and abuse each other and this happens on the left and the right.

The problem with the referendum that happened was that it was completely rigged and definitely had a foreign nations interference.

There isn't going to be another referendum, not because it would be unfair or undemocratic because the disaster capitalists, tax dodgers and currency speculators have long dreamt of this moment and are holding the tory party hostage.

Agree with your wider point on engagement, but it cuts both ways. I happen to believe that the Brexit vote was largely driven by bigotry and ignorance and the evidence certainly largely points that way.

The relocation's were happening when we were in the EU as well. Job losses have happened when we've been in the EU and there'll more than likely happen when we leave as well.

What about the Government using £9 million of taxpayers money to create and print out a leaflet to every house in the country in favour of Remain but was never included in the budget for the Remain campaign?

Don't all our elections have interference by a certain media mogul?

There could be another referendum but it would cause more division in this country and I think a lot of people don't want to go through it all over again.

Well that's your opinion but I don't agree with it.