[spireitematt]

Both the EU and Brexit negotiating teams are hopeless and none of them have done a business deal and majority of them have never had a proper job they've just been on the gravy train. It's a complex issue and it has to be done properly and it's not.

This is what I said. I said that both negotiating sides are hopeless as none of them have done a business deal and majority of them have never had a proper job as they've been on the gravy train. I meant the EU politicians and UK politicians.

Who do you want negotiating this clusterfuck? That wee twerp from wetherspoons ?  

You (and also oddly enough the daily mail and its readers) keep talking about this process as if it is a business negotiation. It is nothing like a business negotiation, and it has led many people to actually believe the 'no deal is better than a bad deal' pish is true because in business you would walk away rather than accept a bad deal.

The big difference among many,many others is that in this process, no deal means our regulatory infrastructure in key areas ceases unless a domestic authority has been established by that time. So far, there is no indication that is going to happen. If you think it will be then you are deluded.

No, This is mostly about diplomacy and politics because this is going to be about the EUs treaties and articles, and shock of horrors that is going to require diplomats and politicians. As for the trade element, are you seriously telling me that those working for the biggest trade bloc on the planet can't do a deal ?

The EU are going to end up doing a deal for us,and hope that may can sell it to the brexit loons. OR we go all WTO and tank an already weak economy and further divide our already stricken society. This is why i and anyone else sensible is worried about this 'taking back of control'.

I think lawyers and solicitors should be doing the negotiations and it should be cross party, They need people like Starmer and Hague helping with the negotiations and the whole thing needs to be more public, maybe they should film it and put it on Parliament channel so the public know what is being said and what the negotiations are about.

The trade negotiations will be like a business deal as they will need to negotiate tariffs. The non-trade negotiations are more like a divorce and each side will have to give and take to get past the non-trade negotiations to enter the trade negotiations. No deal is not better than a bad deal, a no deal is a bad deal! and both sides don't want a no deal because the whole thing will be long and drawn out and it will mean the UK will have to apply to go back to WTO rules and Germany have said they want a trade deal sorted as soon as possible because they export more goods to us than we do to them and there is even talk of Germany doing a special trade deal with us.

The articles and treaties won't apply to us if we are leaving fully but they will apply to us if we stay in the single market. The biggest thing which is stalling talks is the EU want EU citizens currently residing in the UK to be given the right to live and work and the UK want the same for the expats leaving on the continent and neither side will say if they will allow them to stay. The other big obstacle in the way is the EU want £60-£100 billion upfront which will be for MEP pensions and other payments and unless we give them £60-£100 billion then they can't move forward to the trade talks.

Also even if we leave in 2019 we will still be paying into the EU till 2021 as the Tories agreed the 7 year budget back in 2014.

No one has left the EU before so this is unknown to the EU and to the UK. The only country to leave the EU or the common market was Greenland who voted to leave in 1982 over a row over fishing rights but they didn't leave properly till 1985 as it took 3 years to sort a deal out on fish. So it could take the UK 10 years or more to sort out a deal on trade. So to sort a trade deal out in less than 2 years on millions of products and services is unrealistic and anybody who thinks a trade deal can be sorted out in less than 2 years are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Yes the EU will sort out a deal for us and they will say take it or leave it and whoever is in charge in 2019 will come back and give a speech and its likely there will be another referendum on the deal and the options will be stay in the single market, leave fully or remain in the European Union.

Problem is if we go to WTO rules there will be countries who will want freedom of movement from Non-EU countries just for a trade deal with us and the thing is if people look at the immigration statistics there is more migration from Non-EU countries than there is from EU countries. So all the people who voted to leave based on immigration are going to feel lied and misled.

Brexit or no Brexit the country was and is divided and the Tories are partly to blame for that as class war is on its way back. There is a divide economically and politically as people are fed up of austerity and those at the top go on about the trickle down effect which never happens. There is a saying. "There are two types of people who vote Tory, the rich and those who are misled, to find out which one you are check your wallet".

People voted for Brexit on different reasons. Some voted on immigration, some voted because they knew that if we left it would get rid of Cameron (and they were right) some people voted to hold our own Government to account because for the last 7 years inside the EU the Government said we couldn't do this or do that as we had to abide EU law and they thought if we left then the Tories couldn't use the EU anymore as an excuse and they would have to take responsibility for there actions but even if we leave the Tories will still find some excuse for not putting funding into infrastructure or public services. Some had already made there minds up years before this vote as they thought the EU was a bad thing and some voted to leave because they thought we should never have joined the common market.

The referendum was probably one of the most dirtiest and underhand votes ever as both sides lied throughout and both made claims which were untrue. No one deep down knows what will happen its all speculation and might or may scenarios. If we stay in the EU it could become a federal Europe with no borders and people can travel freely across the continent to live and work with 1 flag, 1 anthem, 1 currency. If we leave we could be successful or we could face years of hardship before it gets better. If we leave fully a new generation might come along and take us back in if the EU is still going.

If the EU wants to keep going they need to reform and ask themselves why are people starting to become Eurosceptic in certain countries. If the Five Star Movement (Left wing party) in Italy do well or even win the election next year then I expect to see a referendum on Italy's membership of the EU. If the Czech Republic, Hungary or Poland get expelled from the EU that will really change things. The same with Catalonia if they get independence from Spain it will cause the EU a headache.