[spireitematt]

Well the question has been decided.

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union?

Personally as it stands I'm undecided but I was wondering if Cameron gets a bit of reform in Europe will he go back on his word and not give us a referendum. There's talk that if Cameron fails to get reform and Britain votes to remain a member of the EU then there could be a second referendum in 2020 just before the general election. Also even if the country votes to leave the EU then Cameron could decide to keep us in.

[ritchiebaby]

At the moment I'm slightly in favour of coming out of the EU, but I'm open to persuasion. As far as the economic argument is concerned, all I'd say is that USA and China do business with the EU and they're not members. When we had the original Yes vote, it was to join the Common Market, but as usual the politicians and bureaucrats have taken over and it's now become a monster. We need to retain our independence as much as possible and I'm sure our money could be better spent here.

[St Charles Owl]

I too would be undecided (I won't get a vote though) but the problem for me is we know we are never going to get true information on the real consequences of voting on way or the other. ONe side will highlight the money we send to the rest of the Union and the immigration issues, while the other will talk about the trade benefits and ease of travel, but neither will give us the whole truth about any of it.

Ritchie, as regards the US and China, I think its dangerous to compare us with them with regard to world trade!! They are the two largest economies in the world so pack a much bigger punch than little old Britain does, that goes a long way to securing favorable trade agreements for them, something I think we would struggle to compete with.

My initial thoughts are by pulling out we would defintely save some money instead of having to give it to others, but we would lose all our subsidies on industries such as agriculture. Immigration would be easier to control, but lets be right we have taken in immigrants for decades before we were part of the EU anyway, so I am not convinced being in the EU causes more immigration. Companies that do a lot of business within the EU will definitely suffer as they would be subjected to tarriffs and taxes from the remaining members to be able to sell there, directly hurting British jobs!! Imported products will become more expensive for sure, but on the other hand we could poosibly create jobs in Britain to make or supply these products ourselves. There are so many double edged swords on all types of topics, good on one hand and bad on the other.

My biggest concern, and probably the one that would make mean lean to staying in the EU is that we would go back to being a bit too insular with regard to the rest of Europe, yes we are an island and not acutally connected to mainland Europe, but we cannot go back to the "We are better than you" attitudes we have seen in the past. I don't mind being confident and talking up yourself, but it too easily becomes arrogance and that will hurt us as a country in the eyes of the rest of the world!!

[ritchiebaby]

Yes, SCO, perhaps the use of the USA and China was rather extreme, but Switzerland and Norway are not members and they seem to be doing all right for themselves. On the subject of finance, the Court of Auditors have found themselves unable to approve the annual accounts of the European Union, without major audit qualifications, since 1993. Not the type of organisation I would want to be involved with.

On the other hand, free movement of people between EU countries is a great benefit to all countries, as individual countries still retain a modicum of control. Don't forget the free movement principle applies to capital investment too, which must have aided the UK.

[spireitematt]

The Treaty of Rome was officially set up so that European countries could trade with other countries in the common market but the Maastricht Treaty which was set up in 1992 has become more of a dictatorship with Germany and France at the forefront possibly because France and Germany were two of the six original parties which founded the EU and it has been altered and reformed by the treaties of Amsterdam, Nice and Lisbon to change laws and policies.

We pay £55 million a day to the EU to be part of this exclusive club. If we leave the EU we can still trade with Europe but also like you say Richie being in the EU gives free movement of people EU countries which benefits everyone. Farmers will be desperate to stay in the EU because of subsidy payments they get and also farmers will be worried about US imports which the European Union is already trying to block. Leaving the EU could be bad for big British businesses which trade in Europe and around the World but small businesses could thrive from leaving the EU. If we leave the EU then big British businesses will have to lay people off but then again Britain could start creating industry again like we used to before it was all sold off.

I think the big topic surrounding leaving the EU for most of the British public is immigration and I think there is a lot of scaremongering by right wing newspapers such as the Daily Mail and the Daily Express. One good thing which Britain did was we never signed up to the Euro otherwise we would be in a situation like Ireland, Spain, Portugal and Greece. The Conservatives said during the campaign of the election that when the Coalition came to power in 2010 they inherited a budget deficit worse than Greece and I don't think thats true I don't think Britain was worse than Greece.

[St Charles Owl]

Ok, let's see if we can resurrect this thread now that Cameron has come through on his promise to negotiate a new deal and then call a referendum. What do we all think now, do you want to stay in or get out of the EU???

[Amelia Chaffinch]

Out.

[spireitematt]

The deal is bullshit as it does nothing for the UK but protects the bankers and if the EU want they can veto on the deal. As it stands I'm on the fence but leaning towards Out.

[hibeejim21]

The EU is far from perfect but the benefits outweigh the bad stuff.

[El Car]

I suspect most of the anti-EU rhetoric is founded in Xenophobia rather than for example rational economic arguments. Speaking as someone who works for a major global financial services firm, I can tell you that the majority of similar firms are 100% against an exit from the EU, and if we did leave there would likely be a huge detrimental impact to a number of important sectors.