[theo_luddite]

IMO Blair wouldn't have won the 1997 election so well without that agreement.

Fer crying out loud, no Tory government wins without it either.

[hibeejim21]

I have to say my initial enthusiasm for Starmer has dried up. His comments yesterday about scottish blood donors in his speech was just bizarre, a genuine WTF moment.

He's throwing everything at trying to pull back tory voters in 'red wall' seats but i don't think he wins with his 'keep quiet til the election' type tactic. For that to work you need a leader that is genuinely cutting through and it's clear from the figures that he is not.

[ritchiebaby]

Same here, jim. It's as though he's decided the best way to win an election is to become a "Tory-Lite", a bit like Tony Blair did in the beginning of New Labour. If he goes towards the left, he fears a backlash from the middle ground who believe everything they read in the national press.

[0762]

Well said Jim - TRULY A WTF MOMENT THAT WAS ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS AND CERTAINLY CAUSED A STIR UP HERE RE THE CRASS NATURE OF SUCH A STATEMENT THAT SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN UTTERED IN THE FIRST PLACE!! It just confirms where we stand in that regard anyway - no point them hiding such common bias any more esp with the likes of that quisling, Gordon Broon, openly colluding with the Tories on pro-Union activities!!

IMO Blair wouldn't have won the 1997 election so well without that agreement.

Fer crying out loud, no Tory government wins without it either.

That was just a general comment re Blair's 1997 election factored in how he won it Theo. We all know the RW MS press plays a huge part in influencing election results and that fact has been randomly mentioned for a very long time on different OPs/threads down the years as well as some vg book publications and tv documentaries on the subject. The main point being made was Starmer won't be given that "luxury"!! Just look back at the number of elected Labour govts since the end of WWII until now! Very few! And how many actually had the backing of the press?? The Wilson Labour govt? Probably at that specific time in the 1960s!! The Callaghan govt? Again probable. Then after a period of public unrest, power cuts, disruptive strikes we moved on to a new era of RW press and media activity attached to RW governance that has been unprecedented in extreme activity to ensure their favourite candidate/poltical party has a huge advantage over the rest. Now it has morphed to an even worse form than before and coupled on to SM data streaming/online data bombardment/notifications of potential voters that has been questioned by many political analysts/observers re its legitimacy in a true democracy. CAMBRIDGE ANALYTICA ANYONE??? Indeed, re the election of few Labour govts, reflect back to post WWI and how many Labour govts have been elected in the past 100 years - the trend is sadly glaring!! I could go on, but I'll just leave it at that and will obligingly miss out the "Scottish dimension" that has a huge "beef" re the election of Tory govts that continually "haunt us" up here esp after the horribly unacceptable events during the Thatcher years - NEVER FORGOTTEN!!

[hibeejim21]

Gordon Brown is to lead a commission to settle the issue of the Union.

I thought Starmer did very well with the speech today, he got heckled quite a bit from the hard left. He made a few jokes, talked about how he wants to focus on work, care, equality and security. He said that Scotland has been failed by the Tories and the SNP. Said Labour are patriotic and the party of the Union.

Speeches don't win elections, so he's got a lot more to do. Has to convince the electorate and not just the converted.

Scotland have been failed by Labour xxxx big time too though. I thought his speech was overlong and too self centred, totally lacking in any vision and direction. He is clueless about Scotland and the devolved nations as his recent intervention in NI politics show.

The press are tickling his balls big time at the moment because he's *not corbyn* and he's solved anti-semitism single handedly. But his personal ratings show he isn't popular in the country at large.

Incidentally Corbyn is very much a Labour MP until the next election whip or not (i believe a legal challenge is underway on how he has been treated). If he stands as an independent he will stroll it in that seat and likely increase his majority.

[spireitematt]

Labour might be leading in the polls but is that because of Johnson, the sleeze and scandal or something else?. I see the next General Election being a hung parliament. Can't see Labour taking seats from SNP in Scotland, I think the Lib Dems have more of a chance with taking seats off the SNP. I think the Lib Dems will also take seats off certain areas in England especially the South off the Tories, while Labour will win back marginal seats they lost in 2019 to the Tories.

I've read through this whole thread and I made a post around 2020/2021 where I said I can't see Johnson leading the Tories in a General Election in 2023/2024. I think those of us who take an interest in politics and current affairs knew that Johnson would end up not being in charge for a long time. He brought himself down in the end through his own incompetence.

[hibeejim21]

Labour could just come out with some fudge like "its up to the scottish people to make that decision" and it would probably be enough to get seats back up here in tandem with some proper policy. Corbyn did get some results in scotland on that platform in 2017 or at least ran them close. Instead they are going full on for the gammon/unionist vote and when the crunch comes they will vote tory.

Meanwhile England lurches further and further to the right and the system does not allow for anything other than "managed" democracy.

[0762]

Well their plans to replace the European Human Rights legislation with their own "watered down" and highly questionable version "speaks volumes" re what's ahead from these unscrupulous morons. Re the Labour Party and an inadequate Starmer, IMO Angela Rayner would've been a far better political adversary to match up to these RW Brexit morons who have no regard for anyone else but themselves and their very rich paymasters.

[0762]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/si...4851b09925

Desperate and undemocratic Sir Keir in full view AGAIN. A red Tory with no solid Labour principles whatsoever, definitely lost any chance of consolidating some kinda significant support in Scotland, but I think he knew that anyway as the Scot Labour Party is nothing more than a branch office that takes its instructions from its paymasters in London - been in the political wilderness up here for well over a decade and counting.

[Lord Snooty]

Old news is that. He'd scrapped them ten pledges ages ago.

Did you see the old lass taking him to task on his visit to Liverpool? Poor old Keith couldn't get a word in, as she listed everything that was wrong with him. He just stared at her like a naughty schoolboy in front of the headmistress.

Eventually on of his minders had to step in and try to usher her away.

---

Here she is.....