[0762]

Don't forget Jim that this Old Etonian f####r wasn't even aware that Scottish Law existed. It kinda enforces the axiom that even applies to Eton that "you can't polish a turd" lol!!

[ritchiebaby]

I see that the Scottish Government has had to admit that people flying into the country from abroad have never been able to be traced to ensure that they are abiding by the 14-day quarantine rules. According to Jeanne Freeman, it is because that they have never been given Home Office security clearance to access passenger details. ABSOLUTE GARBAGE! Ask the passenger a few questions - it really is that easy. As usual, it is somebody else's fault, usually the UK Government.

1. Is she trying to tell us that none of the high-powered, high-salaried staff in the airport/immigration services in Scotland couldn't design and print a simple form to collate passenger details when they enter the country?
2. What chance does the test and protect system have when this simple task is beyond the authorities?
3. A restaurant will soon have to ask for customers' details when they go for a meal. Will the restaurant have to obtain Home Office clearance first?
4. If it is really the fault of the Home Office, why has the Scottish Government not been shouting from the rooftops for the past 4 weeks that Home Office clearance has not been given?

I'm afraid to say that this is another example of the SNP Government's "shambolic" approach to certain aspects of the Covid-19 pandemic.

[0762]

I must say the SNP govt did not explicitly blame anybody on this issue! Freeman explained that the process was held up by a security clearance through the Home Office and the FM explained it further re what is formally called an initial Memorandum of Understanding which was delayed i.e. the usual govt "red tape" that sometimes" arises re this kinda process and it arose because the process was being initiated through Public Health Scotland - required an amendment to the MOU! Hence the delay. Blame was never mentioned in the narrative!!! This issue is about checks over and above the normal process and it must be emphasised there has been a high compliance of the Scot govt requirement anyway and that fact has been confirmed by Border Patrol officials. It has taken a bit of time to formally implement this process within Public Health Scotland (worthy of scrutiny and not perfect!) but it has now been formally integrated within the system. Therefore no reliance on Public Health England. Note the prevalence of the virus in Scotland currently is very much lower than anywhere else in the UK - reckoned to be 5 x lower. IMO the words "storm in a teacup" come to mind and not many people getting too "up tight" on it apart from a few press and bbc individuals.

[ritchiebaby]

I'm afraid that doing nothing is not a good enough response to the problem. It wouldn't be acceptable for the UK Government and equally it's not acceptable for the Scottish Government. This is a public health emergency, so treat it as vitally important - potentially a matter of life and death.

Jeane Freeman stated in a BBC interview that because staff didn't have security clearance from the Home Office they couldn't check that passengers were obeying the quarantine rules. That is what is nonsense. Data Protection is also mentioned as part of the reason for the failure, but that could be negated by getting the information directly from the passengers. As mentioned in my previous post, someone should have taken responsibility and organised another way of recording the details required.

Not only did the Scottish Government keep quiet about the system failure for 4 weeks, there is a report that Humza Yousaf confirmed that the system was being operated according to the rules, when obviously it wasn't. So much for open and honest conversations and transparency. But I expect no more to be honest. They are politicians after all.

[0762]

I listened to the full explanation today from the FM and the Health Secretary under scrutiny from a couple of press/media reps and they explained the circumstances and reasons for delay fairly well. IMO most of the daily statements re COVID-19 have been generally honest and transparent TBF and I just don't "buy" such an argument that the Scot govt is dishonest and non-transparent. Why on earth would they practise in such a manner anyway??? Totally illogical!! Also they didn't specifically do nothing under the circumstances! The normal process, ensuring passengers were aware of the Scot govt's requirements, was still applied anyway on entry into the UK and close contact with the Border Patrol was maintained to check for compliance. I personally think they should've copied Wales' Mark Drakeford's ploy to effectively ignore the Home Office red tape/the delayed formal process and just apply the restriction anyway but, hey ho, each govt can call it differently and indeed mistakes (or delays for whatever reason!) can occur now n again - that's the "nature of the beast" in which "lessons will be learnt" on this journey into the unknown. Lastly, consider the formal written process to the Home Office anyway - one presents the written requirement for the process to be security compliant and assuming it will be a fairly quick turnaround. Then additional measures have to be applied to satisfy Home Office requirements - more delay time, more exchange of letters! I've seen it, done it in slightly different circumstances and, by gum, "patience is a virtue" (esp if one is dependent on another party being similarly priority responsive, which may not be the case!) in trying to progress to conclusion as quickly as poss and, during the process, do I wanna tell all and sundry that I've temporarily "hit a brick wall"!!!? A case of check the confidential govt file (or other govt guidance or advice) on how to practise during a pandemic and "get on with it" as effectively as poss.

[ritchiebaby]

0762, it would seem that you consider the Scottish Government to be beyond reproach in this case and I would ask you to consider your response if the UK Government was similarly failing in it's lack of compliance with quarantine guidance and also with omitting to keep to their obligations on agreed procedures.

Your view doesn't detract from the fact that Scottish officials could have taken action to check if quarantine regulations were being adhered to if they wanted to. Never mind, your response shows that it's easy to find many reasons why nothing should be done instead of looking for one reason why something should be done.

I would remind you that my criticism is on this matter alone and not generally.

[0762]

I have never regarded the Scot govt to be beyond reproach and please take note of that fact as well Mr Saint Charles Owl!!!!!! Indeed scrutiny of the Scot govt is absolutely required as much as it is required of a second rate British govt in Westminster that continues to make some astounding and highly questionable decisions that threaten lives within the regions of England. I find your use of certain extreme words such as "shambolic" to be a wee bit "over the top" TBF and the generality of the Scot govt being dishonest and transparent is a tad inaccurate in the overall scheme of things even though, as I have previously iterated, they are not perfect and mistakes will inevitably happen on occasions. Btw you keep insinuating that nothing was done when, in fact, lotsa activity was happening in the background to move things on and lets not forget the element of risk in this particular case - fairly low esp with the actual process being applied anyway plus few travellers for obvious reasons and those travellers made aware of the quarantine rules required by the Scot govt plus the caution attached to their movements and monitoring of their health conditions plus adherence to social distancing etc. Subsequent compliance also confirmed by the Border Patrol and no surprise TBH! I'll also correct myself re the Welsh system of processing - it is different (no MOU) from the one being applied in Scotland but that is down to the Welsh FM and how the Welsh govt wanted do it. Lastly lets place this debate into perspective - of course mistakes will be made during this period of crisis and it is likely more mistakes will arise at some point but the Scot govt's overall approach, going forward, is driving down the prevalence of this virus to a level that is much lower than anywhere else in the UK (about 5 x lower than anywhere in England). Lets hope that success continues but one must emphasise there is a long way to go esp when one takes note of pubs in England shutting down again due to COVID detected infections (anybody surprised????) and lockdowns re-imposed in other countries like Australia, Serbia, Spain, USA - CHALLENGING TIMES FOR ALL GOVERNMENTS WORLDWIDE AND I'LL BET MOST OF THEM HAVE MADE MISTAKES ALONG THE WAY, SOME BIGGER AND COSTLIER THAN OTHERS!

[St Charles Owl]

0762, figured you might have noticed my "Like" on that previous post, good spot though!! You know my thoughts, you can sometimes not be as objective as you could be with your comments, but we are all guilty of that at times.

I do hope the UK can avoid what is going on over here!! The case numbers in the UK are so much lower than they were, you have to keep them down to manageable levels. We are in the shit over here, still in the first wave but now spread over most of the country and the federal government has essentially given up on doing anything about it. This has forced even Trump-loyal Governors to implement lockdowns and health rules that would have been unthinkable a month ago!! And what does Trump say, he said in one of his speeches that the rest of the world is looking at America with envy over his handling of the virus!!!!

[hibeejim21]

I think the response across the board to covid has been poor, and sturgeon has made mistakes too and she will have to reckon with that when the eventual enquiry is made.

My understanding is that the airport checks issue is a Reserved matter though. The Scottish gov put in an amendment due to concerns around data quality and it took over 4 weeks for them to receive the amended memo of understanding. FM confirmed it was only received on Friday. Bear in mind the home office and UK government/home office has been very poor at informing English cities with data and clearance for them to fight covid never mind the devolved administrations. See Andy burnhams latest comments.

I'll say one thing about sturgeon she hasn't hidden in all of this and has communicated very well. The people trust her. She has clearly handled the Coronavirus crisis better than Johnson, but at the same time this is comparing Scotland to one of the worst performing countries in Europe run by a lying, amoral, racist, imbecile.

[ritchiebaby]

"I find your use of certain extreme words such as "shambolic" to be a wee bit "over the top" TBF and the generality of the Scot govt being dishonest and transparent is a tad inaccurate in the overall scheme of things even though, as I have previously iterated, they are not perfect and mistakes will inevitably happen on occasions. Btw you keep insinuating that nothing was done when, in fact, lotsa activity was happening in the background to move things on and lets not forget the element of risk in this particular case - fairly low esp with the actual process being applied anyway plus few travellers for obvious reasons and those travellers made aware of the quarantine rules required by the Scot govt plus the caution attached to their movements and monitoring of their health conditions plus adherence to social distancing etc."

0762 - if you are saying that I accused the Scottish Government of being dishonest, then you are being extremely inaccurate. Read my posts again and see that I was giving my opinion on one particular part of the regulations, not my general view on the overall situation. Also, nothing was done to record the necessary information so that checks could be made. The perceived low risk is relatively unimportant when you consider that it takes only one person to start a new transmission. It's a public health emergency, so let's treat it like one.

Contrast that inaction with the staff at one of the English pubs, when they telephoned customers who might have had contact with an infected person - probably because they couldn't trust the UK Government to do it. Plaudits to the staff for treating this case as a public health emergency and acted swiftly.