[ritchiebaby]

Just a couple of things about the latest events.

1. If Scotland had voted for Independence in 2014, we would probably have been out of the EU by now and have to apply for membership.

2. The UK can still be out before the EU elections, if the Tories and Labour can agree on a positive way forward - no chance of that in my opinion. The EU are in just as big a mess over a No Deal as we are, as they're not ready for it either.

I feel sorry for the can, as it's going to get another 6 months of kicking.

[0762]

Scotland would've been "in a better place" if thousands n thousands of voters in our population had not been duped by these shameless Unionist c#### and that is a fact AND I believe membership of the EU would've been extended and certainly special consideration would've been given under the crazy circumstances that we are witnessing being played out by a shambolic British government and lame opposition i.e. idiots to the left, idiots to the right and idiots in the middle ground and as for Scotland, my honest view is that the SNP does not really know what to do either!!! Hence my reference to 2014 and a positive direction and a new challenge for our people who are definitely different from the voting public and politicians in England!! An opportunity lost and typically Scottish for not grasping that opp gleefully with both hands and avoiding being the only country to reject self-determination since WW2!!! A f####### waste and absolute folly!!! Rant over!!!

[spireitematt]

Interesting Statistics here.

England - Remain 46.62%, Leave 53.38% - Difference - 6.76% in favour of Leave
N Ireland - Remain 55.78%, Leave 44.22% - Difference - 11.56% in favour of Remain
Scotland - Remain 62.00%, Leave 38.00% - Difference - 24.00% in favour of Remain
Wales - Remain 47.47%, Leave 52.53% - Difference - 5.06% in favour of Leave

What would be very interesting is if there was another referendum and it was 51%-49% in favour of Remain or 50.5%-49.5% in favour of remain.

If Article 50 is revoked and we end up remaining then what happens? Surely we can't carry on like it never happened.

[hibeejim21]

Unfortunately matt, we had a referendum on the most important issue since the war dreamt up by a fat, idle Tory wanker who thought, with supreme arrogance, that proper checks and balances weren't required because he was "rather good" at being PM and all he had to do was show up. The genie is out the bottle.

I'd be absolutely amazed if article 50 gets revoked. The tories would fall apart.

[0762]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/201...rron-banks

And now that other wanker/political opportunist, Farage defending the fact Banks won't bank roll his new Brexit party!!!!?? Really???
I must add to Matt's thread that the remain view/vote has massively increased in Scotland to well above the 70% mark and no f###### wonder!! Our voting population is not so stupid up here to be duped by some of the shameless political shit that was witnessed in 2016 and the years that followed!! It is also a pity Farage is not "peddling" his Brexit opportunism and deceit up here in Scotland because he'd be "blown away" like a harmless feather!! It will be intriguing to see the exact opposite being practised by stupid voters in England AGAIN!! And Euro elections beckon where in Scotland we can make a clear statement of our own political preferences and, even though it feels like we've been doing that without tangible effect since time immemorial, the yawning gap between "leave" England and "remain" Scotland is now the most potent, relevant and easily demonstrated indicator of national difference. That matters to Euro leaders who might soon consider a membership application from an indy Scotland. Hence, lets have four indy supporting MEPs to replace the two Labour and one Tory + that bizarre choice of UKIP MEP, Coburn in 2014!! And top that up with another two indy-supporting MEPs to replace the previous SNP ones!! The real opposition to the SNP is the Scot Greens!! So our Scot electorate must maximise the indy vote by foisting a 100% Scot indy representation on the EU!! On 23 May, if we get the chance, lets have a vigorous debate about Scotland and Europe - not a dutiful "ticking" of boxes!!!

[spireitematt]

Unfortunately matt, we had a referendum on the most important issue since the war dreamt up by a fat, idle Tory wanker who thought, with supreme arrogance, that proper checks and balances weren't required because he was "rather good" at being PM and all he had to do was show up. The genie is out the bottle.

I'd be absolutely amazed if article 50 gets revoked. The tories would fall apart.

What do you mean "The tories would fall apart". They already are in our very eyes.

Abraham Lincoln said "A house divided against itself cannot stand". That's what we are witnessing with the Government, Tory Party and the House of Commons.

---

I must add to Matt's thread that the remain view/vote has massively increased in Scotland to well above the 70% mark and no f###### wonder!!

That's an opinion poll though, opinion polls don't mean anything because they use a figure of 1,000 or 3,000 people and then make a predication that it would go a certain way. The statistics I stated are what people voted in 2016. If Scotland and Northern Ireland voted the same way or by a bigger margin for Remain in another referendum then it would need England and Wales to swing by a big margin towards Remain.

The 2016 referendum was Leave or Remain. It never asked the people how they would like to Leave and what the People's Vote campaign wants to do is put May's Deal against Remain, well if that happened Remain would win with a small turnout because hardly anyone would vote for May's Deal as to put it bluntly it's crap.

I do believe if we repeated the 2016 referendum again and asked the same question I think it could go one of two ways. It could push the Leave vote higher or Remain could win by a small margin like 51%-49% or even 52%-48%. Obviously it depends on if the people voted Leave would vote Leave again and would also depend on the turnout.

[St Charles Owl]

Just a couple of things about the latest events.

1. If Scotland had voted for Independence in 2014, we would probably have been out of the EU by now and have to apply for membership.

2. The UK can still be out before the EU elections, if the Tories and Labour can agree on a positive way forward - no chance of that in my opinion. The EU are in just as big a mess over a No Deal as we are, as they're not ready for it either.

I feel sorry for the can, as it's going to get another 6 months of kicking.

1. If Scotland had voted for Independence in 2014 we would still be sat here watching politicians debate, argue and disagree about the terms of the divorce and its likely that we would be talking to the EU to help sort the terms of the divorce and they in turn would be negotiating with Spain to make sure they didn't veto Scotland's entry into the EU as an independent country!!!! Looking at how we have struggled to unwind our membership of the EU, can you imagine how difficult it will be to unwind a Union that has been around for centuries???

2. Those EU elections seem likely to produce some serious right wing shifts in who gets voted in. Nationalism is on the rise in the EU, if they think Brexit is bad enough, they had better get a handle on the shifting sand in the EU or they will walk into their next crisis very quickly!!

[0762]

Unfortunately matt, we had a referendum on the most important issue since the war dreamt up by a fat, idle Tory wanker who thought, with supreme arrogance, that proper checks and balances weren't required because he was "rather good" at being PM and all he had to do was show up. The genie is out the bottle.

I'd be absolutely amazed if article 50 gets revoked. The tories would fall apart.

What do you mean "The tories would fall apart". They already are in our very eyes.

Abraham Lincoln said "A house divided against itself cannot stand". That's what we are witnessing with the Government, Tory Party and the House of Commons.

---

I must add to Matt's thread that the remain view/vote has massively increased in Scotland to well above the 70% mark and no f###### wonder!!

That's an opinion poll though, opinion polls don't mean anything because they use a figure of 1,000 or 3,000 people and then make a predication that it would go a certain way. The statistics I stated are what people voted in 2016. If Scotland and Northern Ireland voted the same way or by a bigger margin for Remain in another referendum then it would need England and Wales to swing by a big margin towards Remain.

The 2016 referendum was Leave or Remain. It never asked the people how they would like to Leave and what the People's Vote campaign wants to do is put May's Deal against Remain, well if that happened Remain would win with a small turnout because hardly anyone would vote for May's Deal as to put it bluntly it's crap.

I do believe if we repeated the 2016 referendum again and asked the same question I think it could go one of two ways. It could push the Leave vote higher or Remain could win by a small margin like 51%-49% or even 52%-48%. Obviously it depends on if the people voted Leave would vote Leave again and would also depend on the turnout.

Re that opinion poll line, I'll correct you on one main point that there have been a good number of opinion polls that consistently reveal an evolved "opinion" that remaining in the EU has been enhanced to well over 70% of the Scottish voting population. You can say what you want to suit your argument but just come up to Scotland and sample a hardening of the public attitude to what has been going on in England and Westminster re Brexit to the point where we were right all along and being told regularly to "piss off" has really "hardened" the Scottish perception of Brexit and the idiots who back it!! Anybody who dismisses what is happening up here in Scotland "on the ground" really is living in cloud cuckoo land TBF!!

[ritchiebaby]

SCO, I take your point about Scotland and the ROUK still arguing about separation after 5 years. I wonder what Nicola's arguments would be compared to the ones she is using now about "Brexit".

0762, I most certainly agree about the hardening of attitudes in Scotland regarding the behaviour of MPs in Westminster. For my part, I have gone from a marginally pro-Independence ditherer to a 100% committed hard-line advocate for Scottish Independence. The only problem I have is that, living in the rural Scottish Borders, my views will be ignored at Holyrood in favour of the Central Belt requirements, much the same as Scotland is ignored at Westminster in favour of the Southern half of England.

PS - I would argue against any insinuation that "Brexit" is the result of any Leave voters' intentions. Mrs May's "Brexit" is entirely her ineffectual and anodyne vision and bears no relation whatsoever to what I and millions of others voted for. So much so, that I would welcome the chance to vote Leave in a second referendum.

[0762]

A 2nd referendum will not happen but I would welcome it just to endorse my pride in being Scottish and witnessing a huge Scottish voting groundswell endorsing our strong association with Europe that goes back 100s of years and is self-evident in our culture, cities, streets and even in the Scottish language itself. As said previously, Scotland is politically and culturally different and it is good to see my fellow Scots "taking a strong stand" on Brexit and ultimately the way forward to self-determination but we will be ignored with impunity unless "something gives" eventually!!