European Union Referendum - In or Out??

**spireitematt** · 13-03-2019, 19:18

(13-03-2019, 10:32)hibeejim21 Wrote: I was talking about their structural integrity, the integrity of their borders and single market. But if you want to go down that route the EU have shown more moral integrity too. That's because European nations opted to put the needs of Ireland, a small country, ahead of demands of the UK, a bigger,wealthier country. That shows the protection that EU membership affords, and it also proves that national power can be strengthened in Brussels, where you seem to insist it can only be debilitated there.

I got no idea why you think I'm advocating a general strike matt, I'm advocating a confirmatory vote by the british people because parliament has run out of time to make a decision.

The EU is far from perfect but it will contribute a lot more to the UK than the likes of banks,farage,bojo,francois,rees mogg and all their trump/putin friends ever will. I've got no idea how its going to pan out, but if its like you say it will then one day we will all be grateful.

I agree with you about the structural integrity but not the moral integrity. I think the EU commission and the presidents have used Ireland but that's my opinion. How will we vote for ourselves if Westminister don't offer another referendum?

I think Parliament ran out of time to make a decision the day Article 50 was triggered, the whole thing has been handled wrongly from the off. It's been an utter shambles since Article 50 was triggered with incompetent ministers like Grayling who gave away millions to a ferry company which has no experience in that industry and got there terms and conditions from a bloody takeaway website. The man is a walking disaster and yet somehow he's still in a job.

The EU isn't perfect but they refuse to reform and they'll have to reform sooner or later because they keep expanding and letting in new member states. Do you really think those names you mentioned above were doing it for the good of the country? They did it for themselves, nothing but a bunch of charlatans.

It will be revoke Article 50 and remain or it will be a 2nd referendum. No Deal would be disastrous for both parties because we haven't prepared for No Deal, the Leave campaign had no plan and neither did the Government when they gave the people the referendum. People think No Deal will be fine but it won't be because who will we trade with on the 30th March? We've got six trade deals, SIX! and we haven't even applied to join the WTO yet! The whole thing is a xxxx farce and its like some 70s sitcom.

0762 · (This post was last modified: 13-03-2019, 20:48 by 0762.)

Also someone explain to me why any government would actually "sign off" Article 50 and then follow on with serious negotiations from thereon in???? IMO this whole formal process was initiated from back to front with gross incompetence!! Having worked on contracts and compilation of formal docs for years, one negotiates to a "point of comfort" and then move towards such a critical point as signing off, in this case, Article 50. Nuts and definitely politically motivated!!!

**spireitematt** · 13-03-2019, 23:30

So they've rejected a No Deal Brexit and voted down the Malthouse compromise amendment which was to extend Article 50 till May 22nd. The default option is if we get to the 29th March without a deal or extension of Article 50 then we still fall out of the EU with a no deal even though Westminister voted against a no deal Brexit.

Tomorrow there is a vote to whether to extend Article 50 or not but if Westminister vote to extend Article 50, all of the 27 member states need to agree to it and if one veto's then Article 50 won't be extended. If all of the 27 member states agree to extending Article 50 then that means we will need candidates to stand in the European elections in May. The EU isn't going to like that because populist parties and Anti-EU parties are already predicted to do well.

The EU have said time and time again that there is no other deal than the one which has been rejected twice in Parliament and I can't see May trying to get it passed for a 3rd time because it won't be.

There are several options left

1. Customs Union
2. Single Market/Customs Union
3. Revoke Article 50 and Remain in the EU
4. Extend Article 50/ General Election or 2nd Referendum

0762 · (This post was last modified: 14-03-2019, 01:21 by 0762.)

One startling fact that came out of today's resounding vote against a "no deal" option is that the govt is a "no deal" broker - extraordinary but they "Whipped" for it, only certain members of the cabinet didn't follow the Whip!!! No unity there eh!! IMO the Brexit that was proposed from the very beginning was a fantasy and there is no version of Brexit that is not gonna damage the country!! That is the main reason why there is an impasse amongst parliamentarians!! It must go back to the people contrary to the violation of democracy nonsensical argument as democracy is already being violated in the UK parliament!!!

hibeejim21 · 14-03-2019, 10:47

Yesterday saw parliament in complete meltdown Laugh

May using a 3 line whip against her own motion and failing Laugh

She really is beyond xxxx useless.

It also saw farage and other hardline brexiters colluding openly in Poland and italy with right wing politicians to try and obtain a veto on an article 50 extension. Absolute treachery, I can only hope farage and banks end up behind bars after this - where they belong.

It rests with bercow now, can he keep allowing may to keep bringing an unaltered deal back to the house? If he does I can see the ERG and DUP eventually allowing it to get their precious 29 march exit.

I heard some old duffer from kent on the news speaking from a pub (probably spoons) reminding us that "we've rabbits in us fields and grow potatoes in us garden - we was alright before and we'll be alright after" Laugh

All of this bullshit to make a lot of rich right wing arseholes even richer and putin/trump happy. Well done. Thumb up

0762 · (This post was last modified: 14-03-2019, 15:54 by 0762.)

Aye! That archetypal "oldie" Brexit opinion of positivity again ha ha ha!! I've watched various versions of this behaviour in the past two years and it utterly baffles me esp with no substance attached to the comments!! And I concur Banks and Farage should be jailed for this utter treachery to "get their own way" in any way that they can to force it through!! Shameless RW bastards as they were with their efforts in 2016 and as undemocratic as it gets with lotsa different violations!! These are the very people, full of "dirty tricks", who I wanna see 'swept away" in a "final say/vote" by the real people in our population who, contrary to all this shit re a close vote and "leave" could win it, will vote to remain in the EU if prompted to have a 2nd vote on this issue now that we are very well informed on most of the shit that was never mentioned in 2016!!

0762 · 14-03-2019, 18:04

(14-03-2019, 10:47)hibeejim21 Wrote: Yesterday saw parliament in complete meltdown May using a 3 line whip against her own motion and failing She really is beyond xxxx useless.

It also saw farage and other hardline brexiters colluding openly in Poland and italy with right wing politicians to try and obtain a veto on an article 50 extension. Absolute treachery, I can only hope farage and banks end up behind bars after this - where they belong.

It rests with bercow now, can he keep allowing may to keep bringing an unaltered deal back to the house? If he does I can see the ERG and DUP eventually allowing it to get their precious 29 march exit.

I heard some old duffer from kent on the news speaking from a pub (probably spoons) reminding us that "we've rabbits in us fields and grow potatoes in us garden - we was alright before and we'll be alright after"

All of this bullshit to make a lot of rich right wing arseholes even richer and putin/trump happy. Well done.

Bercow does indeed block these shameless Brexit bastards' move/motion to block a "people's vote"!! Thumb up

0762 · (This post was last modified: 14-03-2019, 20:37 by 0762.)

And now an aye motion resounding to back an extension to delay Brexit while a motion for a "people's vote" disappointingly "slaughtered" and noticeably lotsa Labour abstentions on this vote - another political game being played and it confirms Corbyn's recent obvious intention (based on damning statements) that he wasn't in favour of a "people's vote". Boommmm!!! A shambles!

ritchiebaby · 14-03-2019, 23:53

One Labour MP even managed to vote in both lobbies! Parliament is indeed a farce, except even funnier - unless you've expected our elected representatives to take Brexit seriously.

Nothing has really changed in the last few months - Mrs May and her various minions have made a complete balls-up of the negotiations, the default position is still us leaving on 29 March, Deal or No Deal, our politicians are so busy picking holes in each other's arguments that they are missing the bigger picture and the UK is the laughing stock of the whole world (rightly so, in my opinion).

0762 · 15-03-2019, 00:20

No "heavyweight" politicians in Westminster any more Ritchie and that is a fact - been like that for a very long time!