[hibeejim21]

Very interesting interview of Liam Fox by Marr. Marr put it to Fox that a lot of the public pronouncements by Brexiteers; less regulations, less "crazy" workers rights, cheaper imports, point to a Britain A LOT more like America then Europe.

This is going to be the battle post Brexit, Who is going to get what they want ? the protest voters who secured Brexit for the elite and the non-dom tax dodgers but who were really voting against austerity or the likes of Fox/farage/banks/bojo/rees mogg who have an absolutely ideological fanaticism about some Atlanticist/putin based plan to basically turn us into the 51st state ?

Watching left wingers line up alongside the latter is truly nauseating, their complacency breathtaking.

[hibeejim21]

Liam Fox in action.....

"The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history. "
20 July 2017


"There is a 60‑40 chance of no-deal Brexit. "
5 August 2018


"We have got to be rational and say that everything will not be wonderful because we are leaving the European Union. "

Today

[0762]

I think my previous description of people like Fox, A DECEPTICON, is so accurate and apt that it should be added as a new word in the Oxford Dictionary! On a more serious note, someone must "take up the mantle" politically and seriously push for that "people's vote" because the public have definitely been conned re the whole EU question and the political shambles that followed merely confirmed that fact. We need a forceful political figure to push forward before the Tory party implodes before and after the Tory conference at the end of October.

[ritchiebaby]

Just a few thoughts about the continuing debacle that is Brexit.

The Brexit that we are being led into is most certainly not the Brexit I voted for, mainly because of the calamitous ineptitude of the Tory negotiations and the refusal of the EU to consider anything other than their dictatorial version of Brexit.

I feel that a Brexit deal is still unlikely to happen because either Westminster will not agree to the terms or at least one of the EU countries will not agree to it.

I honestly feel that the voters should be given another referendum to decide to Remain or Leave after the terms are known, BUT only the voters who voted the first time round, in order to properly guage the undoubted change of opinion in the country.

I did say right from the start that I expected the politicians to make a right balls-up of the process and it looks like it's coming to pass. As far as I'm concerned, Barnier is only ready to give a miniscule amount of leeway, because he'd much rather deal with May than with Johnson. Barnier is a wily old fox and he's been in control right from the start - be hard all the way and give a little at the end so it almost feels like the UK has won something.

Hopefully I'll wake up next April and discover it's all been a Dallas dream.

[hibeejim21]

Just a few thoughts about the continuing debacle that is Brexit.

The Brexit that we are being led into is most certainly not the Brexit I voted for, mainly because of the calamitous ineptitude of the Tory negotiations and the refusal of the EU to consider anything other than their dictatorial version of Brexit.

I feel that a Brexit deal is still unlikely to happen because either Westminster will not agree to the terms or at least one of the EU countries will not agree to it.

I honestly feel that the voters should be given another referendum to decide to Remain or Leave after the terms are known, BUT only the voters who voted the first time round, in order to properly guage the undoubted change of opinion in the country.

I did say right from the start that I expected the politicians to make a right balls-up of the process and it looks like it's coming to pass. As far as I'm concerned, Barnier is only ready to give a miniscule amount of leeway, because he'd much rather deal with May than with Johnson. Barnier is a wily old fox and he's been in control right from the start - be hard all the way and give a little at the end so it almost feels like the UK has won something.

Hopefully I'll wake up next April and discover it's all been a Dallas dream.

Thats an interesting idea about the same voters getting the say next time ritchie and i agree with it in spirit but i doubt that democratically or logistically whether its possible.

From the off i've doubted whether the tories would even try for a deal, i still think thats a little charade they are playing. They know there is no negotiable path through this mess. The EU wants the withdrawal agreement to avoid a political nightmare, I reckon it has already drafted the only version that works months ago and May is the only one who can deliver it simply because of timing.

So May gets a lot of sweet talk about that totally laughable, ludicrous Chequers plan so that she can make it through the night. It costs the EU nothing because the actual negotiations about the future relationship come after the withdrawal deal. Then thats the time to shoot down the British delusions...... But by then the EU will have banked the withdrawal deal to seal the EUs position, in line with the actual legal constraints posed by EU law. Because thats key.

2 problems remain: 1) Who is going to take the hit on ireland and 2) May has to try and get the deal through parliament and past lunatics like bill cash and rees mogg.

As you say a 'continuing debacle'.

---

I think my previous description of people like Fox, A DECEPTICON, is so accurate and apt that it should be added as a new word in the Oxford Dictionary! On a more serious note, someone must "take up the mantle" politically and seriously push for that "people's vote" because the public have definitely been conned re the whole EU question and the political shambles that followed merely confirmed that fact. We need a forceful political figure to push forward before the Tory party implodes before and after the Tory conference at the end of October.

Interestingly its been discovered that may knew that the electorate had been deceived and electoral law broken before she activated article 50 through parliament.

In whoever interests she is acting it isn't the british peoples.

[0762]

It just disproves this notion that the Tory party is the political party of the people or that old Toerag cliche "the party for government" - total pish and one reason (one of many!) that I'm on the Scot indy bandwagon and hope many other Scots "waken up" and support the indy movement and the 2018 indy AUOB (and others) marches now that we've unsurprisngly passed the 50% mark and rising.

[hibeejim21]

Another leaked document....

NEW - Govt internal aviation "No Deal" preps revealed in new #Brexitforensics
- Grayling has just written to all 27 EU member states to do bilateral No Deal deals to keep planes flying as now
- Internal CAA documents says No Deal/ leaving EASA would mean reissuing pilots licenses.

Apparently the 27 have told grayling they don't do bilateral deals and referred him to Brussels.

The latest from boris/moggy and co is that "the difference between WTO and a trade deal are not that big"

Even the thickest of the thick must realize that's bullshit. But digest anyway and then read below....the real reason why our democracy has been subverted by the super-rich.

EU's Anti Tax Avoidance Directive.
https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/bu...rective_en

Remember (the big bad) ECJ forces governments to collect tax. Ireland were ordered by the ECJ to collect €13bn from Apple that Apple were considered to have underpaid. The Irish government did not want to collect.. The order to pay remains.

With that in mind - why the massive pressure to leave by March 29, 2019? The UK financial year begins on April 6 - and that is when the Directive was due to be implemented.

[ritchiebaby]

Jim, I would argue that the second vote would be perfectly feasible.

Democratically fine, as the people who didn't bother to vote the first time can't complain that they were denied a vote on the subject.

Logistically realistic, as the electoral staff know who voted the first time. My name was scored off a big list of those registered to vote. If the staff buy a big box of highlighters they can ensure that only eligible voters can vote under my plan.

Flippant, I know, but it's just the way I feel at the moment. I would imagine that Remain would win by approx. 60/40, probably the same as a YES vote for Scottish Independence.

As for Deal Or No Deal (sound familiar?), I take it we are already committed to leaving the EU under Article 50, so any vote would probably be irrelevant. I understood that the March date was mandatory as it follows the timescale after the UK triggered Article 50.

[hibeejim21]

Ritchie.

There was no particular need to trigger article 50 through at that point, david Cameron himself said so. In fact it put the UK at a negotiation disadvantage. Pressure on may from within the tory party and UKIP resulted in it happening when it did, and I firmly believe the timing of that and the chaos that followed relates to certain forces desire to escape the EU clampdown on tax avoidance.

I don't really believe in coincidence you see.

[0762]

It's now intriguing to observe all these brexiteers - Johnson, Fox, Rees-Mogg et al meeting up and plotting to eventually bring down Saint Theresa as well as devising their own twisted solutions to redress the probs like the Irish border question. Why? It's clearly because Michel Barnier had suggested that an agreement was possible by November - he has "spooked" the b####### and they have "come out of their bunkers"!