[hibeejim21]

IMO the comment 'getting our country back' is common to the Little England mentality with that common statement of ownership of one's country - in reality, part of the English population seemed to embrace this mentality, with 'open arms' and that was part of the so called significant majority (pish, it was near enough a split vote!!!) that forced brexit on the UK population. You conveniently omit the culpability/failures of successive British governments while having a 'real go' at the nasty EU. The current negotiations have clearly just given you another to have a 'pop' at the EU!!!! Another Little Englander mentality - don't disguise it FFS!! What about the poor role and preparation of your own British/predominantly English govt again!!!?? Conveniently omitted AGAIN!! You're reading too many shit tabloids like the Daily Mail and others that have 'waged war' against the EU for the past 20-30 years while ignoring the main offenders within our own shores - poor-performing British f###### governments! If you dinne wanna be labeled a 'Little Englander' then stop preaching the same pish from Farage's lying reference manual of deceptions!!

I haven't made any kind of comment about "getting our country back", and nor would I.  You might disagree with my posts on this thread, but have a good long re-read before getting back to me on those labels.

What he's doing is he's labelling anyone who is Eurosceptic or voted Leave as "Little Englanders" and "English Nationalists". Also not everyone who voted to Leave will be a Farage fan or a Ukipper. Everybody who voted Leave will have had different reasons for doing so.

Thats interesting because the reasons you gave for wanting to leave the EU are straight from the farage playbook. 100%.

[spireitematt]

IMO the comment 'getting our country back' is common to the Little England mentality with that common statement of ownership of one's country - in reality, part of the English population seemed to embrace this mentality, with 'open arms' and that was part of the so called significant majority (pish, it was near enough a split vote!!!) that forced brexit on the UK population. You conveniently omit the culpability/failures of successive British governments while having a 'real go' at the nasty EU. The current negotiations have clearly just given you another to have a 'pop' at the EU!!!! Another Little Englander mentality - don't disguise it FFS!! What about the poor role and preparation of your own British/predominantly English govt again!!!?? Conveniently omitted AGAIN!! You're reading too many shit tabloids like the Daily Mail and others that have 'waged war' against the EU for the past 20-30 years while ignoring the main offenders within our own shores - poor-performing British f###### governments! If you dinne wanna be labeled a 'Little Englander' then stop preaching the same pish from Farage's lying reference manual of deceptions!!

I haven't made any kind of comment about "getting our country back", and nor would I.  You might disagree with my posts on this thread, but have a good long re-read before getting back to me on those labels.

What he's doing is he's labelling anyone who is Eurosceptic or voted Leave as "Little Englanders" and "English Nationalists". Also not everyone who voted to Leave will be a Farage fan or a Ukipper. Everybody who voted Leave will have had different reasons for doing so.

Thats interesting because the reasons you gave for wanting to leave the EU are straight from the farage playbook. 100%.

How is wanting Scottish Independence and controlling your own destiny any different to wanting to wanting to leave the EU and control the UK's own destiny.

Also go back and read what I said. I VOTED REMAIN! but I don't agree with everything the EU has done and I believe the EU should go back to a trading union instead of being a political union because EU law overrules British law. Only good things to the EU is trade and free movement but I DON'T want a United States of Europe with 1 flag, 1 anthem and 1 currency which certain individuals in the EU are pushing for and if you are so certain of Scottish independence happening and that Scotland will join the EU then why are you worried about the rest of the UK?

And HOW DARE YOU!!! say that what I've said is from the Farage playbook. I can't stand the man he's odious and preachers hate and xenophobia.

This is the problem today you can't have a proper formal debate or discussion about anything without someone shouting you down or resorting to name calling because they have a different opinion or viewpoint.

[hibeejim21]

No one 'shouted you down' or called you names. Just stated a fact, the reasons you gave for opposition to the EU are shared by Nigel farage. Its worrying you don't seem to grasp that,god knows he said it enough times about the EU superstate.

I've no idea why you voted remain. Everything you have said on here sounds like the usual brexiteer cliche's and mistruths.

[0762]

Re your end comments, TBF I'm fed up to the back teeth of listening to the triumphalist 'we won the brexit' pish that emanates from various individuals down south (incl Little Englanders) on a weekly basis and I'll bet I'm not the only one of millions of UK citizens who are absolutely fed up with this mentality/behaviour. Perhaps I have pre-judged you in that respect (but your anti EU comments don't correlate to that of a professed remain voter!) and pardon my frustration and irritation with this developing trend that seems to predominate down south. Re the comparison with Scotland and Scottish indy, I'd argue that English nationalism and the dreaded brexit fiasco followed Scottish referendum year 2014 and it was orchestrated by a stupid fool of a PM named David Cameron - it should never have happened!!! Also the form of nationalism that I'm referring to and observed in the media, uttered by shameless English politicians etc has poisonous elements attached to it - hatred, mysogny, racism, antagonism and other poisonous forms of human behaviour that are totally unacceptable in a civilised society. There is no comparison to what I'd describe as 'civic nationalism' up here in Scotland. Of course I want Scottish independence but I want it because I believe we have a progressive government that can fully run our country away from the political interference and disrespect from Westminster and it can be accomplished very well and contrary to all the 'scaremongering' and doom laden comments that emanate from unionists up here and down south. As far as I'm concerned, the vote for brexit was a predominant English one and it's no different to Scots being landed with the wrong UK govt AGAIN and contrary to the opposite voting pattern in Scotland. Also the evolving political disrespect and anti Scot govt/Scot indy campaign that has brazenly gone on for months n months is totally unacceptable and I believe that's one of the main reasons (as well as the Tory implosion and Scot Labour infighting) why the SNP/Scot govt is picking up again in the popularity stakes and is apparently better placed now than it was during the buoyant period in 2012. Sure, the impending UK divorce from the EU is similar but IMO utter folly + the UK is a disunited country, a nation with such a huge population and conceding to break away from the biggest single market in the world and one that looks like it is gradually 'picking up' again in economic terms. UTTER FOLLY and it's clear that Theresa May (and other Tory cohorts) is beginning to realise that fact - talk about being 'forced into a corner' with nowhere to go!

[spireitematt]

Re your end comments, TBF I'm fed up to the back teeth of listening to the triumphalist 'we won the brexit' pish that emanates from various individuals down south (incl Little Englanders) on a weekly basis and I'll bet I'm not the only one of millions of UK citizens who are absolutely fed up with this mentality/behaviour. Perhaps I have pre-judged you in that respect (but your anti EU comments don't correlate to that of a professed remain voter!) and pardon my frustration and irritation with this developing trend that seems to predominate down south. Re the comparison with Scotland and Scottish indy, I'd argue that English nationalism and the dreaded brexit fiasco followed Scottish referendum year 2014 and it was orchestrated by a stupid fool of a PM named David Cameron - it should never have happened!!! Also the form of nationalism that I'm referring to and observed in the media, uttered by shameless English politicians etc has poisonous elements attached to it - hatred, mysogny, racism, antagonism and other poisonous forms of human behaviour that are totally unacceptable in a civilised society. There is no comparison to what I'd describe as 'civic nationalism' up here in Scotland. Of course I want Scottish independence but I want it because I believe we have a progressive government that can fully run our country away from the political interference and disrespect from Westminster and it can be accomplished very well and contrary to all the 'scaremongering' and doom laden comments that emanate from unionists up here and down south. As far as I'm concerned, the vote for brexit was a predominant English one and it's no different to Scots being landed with the wrong UK govt AGAIN and contrary to the opposite voting pattern in Scotland. Also the evolving political disrespect and anti Scot govt/Scot indy campaign that has brazenly gone on for months n months is totally unacceptable and I believe that's one of the main reasons (as well as the Tory implosion and Scot Labour infighting) why the SNP/Scot govt is picking up again in the popularity stakes and is apparently better placed now than it was during the buoyant period in 2012. Sure, the impending UK divorce from the EU is similar but IMO utter folly + the UK is a disunited country, a nation with such a huge population and conceding to break away from the biggest single market in the world and one that looks like it is gradually 'picking up' again in economic terms. UTTER FOLLY and it's clear that Theresa May (and other Tory cohorts) is beginning to realise that fact - talk about being 'forced into a corner' with nowhere to go!

I am Eurosceptic and very sceptical of the EU but I voted remain because I thought if the UK had a seat at the table and managed to get other countries onside then they could reform the EU instead of just walking away after 43-44 years. I also didn't trust the Tories to sort out any of this and I guess I was right as its been a complete xxxx-up. I think the majority expected a cross-party group to deal with taking the UK out of the EU.

The way both sides have dealt with this up to now has been atrocious. The Tories are making it up as they go along and the EU are being pig-headed and hoping that we change our minds or that we leave with no deal which looks very likely. The problem was the last Government didn't have a plan in place for the Leave scenario as they were so sure that Remain would win.

The problem with referendums is they are nothing but opinion polls there advisory but the Government promised to implement the result of the EU referendum. Also too many people didn't vote because they were banking on Remain winning and they took it for granted and when the result was Leave they demanded a re-run because they didn't vote, well they should have exercised there right to vote.

I do believe though that there should have been rules set in the referendum which one of the two sides would have to get 60%+ with all of the electorate allowed a vote.

We can keep having referendums till the cows come home on the EU or Scottish independence but all it does is divide and turn people against each other and there will always be someone upset or annoyed that they didn't get the result that they wanted. We could have referendums on whenever we should have a referendum.

[hibeejim21]

You do realise the result of the scottish indie referendum was legally binding? It was not "just an opinion poll" ?

[0762]

One thing I'd add re the UK EU referendum is that the vote should've been made mandatory in this case to maximise the vote and ensure that brexit was never gonna happen. I opined that view well before June 2016 and still regard the omission of that pre-requisite as utter folly and 'leaving the door open' to a narrow brexit affirmative win. As you say, the supreme political optimism of the country voting to remain was utterly negligent and unforgiveable. Also the ROI had a similar exercise a good number of years ago and what did the govt do? They dismissed it because it was indeed an opinion poll and the threshold of yes or no should have been set at between 60-70% of the vote anyway. They had courageous politicians who were not gonna sway from making such a huge mistake economically and politically. Note that countries like Switzerland have lotsa annual referenda and they don't tackle all the relative issues unless unanimity prevails. IMO overdone but everyone to their own way of governance.

[0762]

Note that the recent discovery by Statoil of huge oil resources off the Moray Firth basin, info that I reckon many voting Scots are unaware of, is the ultimate insult to the Scottish nation. Statoil is a Norwegian oil company with this news that was gleefully received by the unionist press and Westminster. Guess where the relative tax ends up? Aye, you've got it - in Westminster coffers AGAIN! And there's more money to boost Norway's massive oil fund even more, a fund that Scotland does not have!!!! One question for the SNP govt to answer is, 'How long can we let this situ continue'? It's 'time to get the finger oot'eh!!!

[0762]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-sc...s-42830255
I notice the Daily Mail 'eating humble pie' this morning and forced to apologise to Scotland's FM, Nicola Sturgeon, over the 'fake news' story re the Union Jack flag not being hoisted on Scot govt/public buildings and Scottish flags prominent. This whole contrived 'storm in a tea cup' is all part of this continuous unionist/British state campaign to bring down the SNP and try to damage the Scottish govt at every opportunity! This is becoming very tiresome as the months and months pass by and I'm sure more n more Scots have finally 'wisened up' to this shit! Maybe the other unionist 'rags' that gave this ridiculous story some 'paper space' should utter the same apology as well or at least highlight the irrelevant shit that it covered!! Indeed it transpires the Scot govt has given two other unionist offenders, Telegraph and Daily Express, 28 days to issue an apology or the complaint goes to the Independent Press Standards Organisation.

[0762]

http://www.thenational.scot/news/1616179..._48_hours/
So the British govt decides to legally challenge the Continuity Bill set out by the Scottish govt to ensure there is no attempt to initiate a 'power grab' on a devolved govt. Also Wales similarly 'in the frame'. Note the Tory party the only political party to oppose this bill and that says it all re proper democracy and the proper protection of Scotland's interests. We'll see how it all unfolds and I hope the Toerags fail miserably as it becomes clear that successive British govts have this obsession to retain significant power to govern my country, Scotland - no more, thanks very much, and I hope many of my fellow Scots, who still lean towards at least home rule for Scotland, start 'smelling the coffee' and back the Scot govt on this matter.