[hibeejim21]

It's not at all laughable to suggest that an independent East Germany might have remained a possibility; indeed, it was the favoured solution of most world leaders of the time, who feared the consequences of a reunified Germany.  Circumstances simply dictated otherwise.  Nations are a sheer accident of history.

I'm happy to leave it at that and agree to disagree.

Oh world leaders wanted an independent east Germany? Who cares. It was up to the German people. There's a good argument that east Germany wasnt really ever independent or a country but that's going to take too long to go into on a phone.

Either way it has no relevance to Scotland.

---

Like I said in my previous post. What happens if you get a 2nd referendum and its to stay with the UK then? Have a 3rd referendum?

Also may I ask why you want to leave?

What's wrong with having more referendums in the future ? Are you afraid of democracy or something? Why does 2 defeats have to set the issue in stone forever?

I'd like independence so the Scottish people have full control over their own futures, not as has proven with brexit and the supreme court verdict resulting from it a mainly impotent holyrood.

Sturgeon is a far,far better leader and politician than may,and with even limited powers is doing a far lot more good with them.

I'm not afraid of democracy.

So Scotland want independence and full control over their own futures similar to what most of the people who voted Leave in the EU referendum want but 0762 calls people who voted Leave "Little Englanders".

How does leaving the EU provide you with"independence and full control" ? Go on, I've got time to hear this one. It provides you with nothing of the kind and if you had been listening to may yesterday,hammond today and numerous other tories in recent weeks you would realise that even they are admitting that.

Why is "little Englanders" such an insult? Its exactly what the likes of farage,johnson and the rest of the loonballs that drove brexit are.

Deary me.

Because leaving the EU means we will be in charge of our own laws. I voted remain but how the EU have treated us in negotiations is disgraceful and if we had a 2nd EU referendum I would vote Leave. I don't want to be part of a United States of Europe with 1 flag, 1 anthem, 1 currency. If we were part of the United States of Europe we would be governed by commission and we would have a Mayor for the state of Britain not a PM.

The European Union would work if it went back to a trading union and just a trading union.

Holy xxxx.

[0762]

Another Little Englander just revealed his 'true colours'! FFS Ska you are living in dreamland in a disunited Kingdom!! Waken up to reality! I've never heard such utter English nationalistic pish until Farage and the rest of these brexit numpties/decepticons started conning a lotta people within the UK population and these shameless xxxx had the audacity/cheek to condemn Scottish nationalism!!!! The difference is 'night n day'!!

[Ska'dForLife-WBA]

Another Little Englander just revealed his 'true colours'! FFS Ska you are living in dreamland in a disunited Kingdom!! Waken up to reality! I've never heard such utter English nationalistic pish until Farage and the rest of these brexit numpties/decepticons started conning a lotta people within the UK population and these shameless **** had the audacity/cheek to condemn Scottish nationalism!!!! :no: The difference is 'night n day'!!

In what way am I a "Little Englander" or an English nationalist?

Please explain, providing examples.

[0762]

IMO the comment 'getting our country back' is common to the Little England mentality with that common statement of ownership of one's country - in reality, part of the English population seemed to embrace this mentality, with 'open arms' and that was part of the so called significant majority (pish, it was near enough a split vote!!!) that forced brexit on the UK population. You conveniently omit the culpability/failures of successive British governments while having a 'real go' at the nasty EU. The current negotiations have clearly just given you another to have a 'pop' at the EU!!!! Another Little Englander mentality - don't disguise it FFS!! What about the poor role and preparation of your own British/predominantly English govt again!!!?? Conveniently omitted AGAIN!! You're reading too many shit tabloids like the Daily Mail and others that have 'waged war' against the EU for the past 20-30 years while ignoring the main offenders within our own shores - poor-performing British f###### governments! If you dinne wanna be labeled a 'Little Englander' then stop preaching the same pish from Farage's lying reference manual of deceptions!!

[spireitematt]

IMO the comment 'getting our country back' is common to the Little England mentality with that common statement of ownership of one's country - in reality, part of the English population seemed to embrace this mentality, with 'open arms' and that was part of the so called significant majority (pish, it was near enough a split vote!!!) that forced brexit on the UK population. You conveniently omit the culpability/failures of successive British governments while having a 'real go' at the nasty EU. The current negotiations have clearly just given you another to have a 'pop' at the EU!!!! Another Little Englander mentality - don't disguise it FFS!! What about the poor role and preparation of your own British/predominantly English govt again!!!?? Conveniently omitted AGAIN!! You're reading too many shit tabloids like the Daily Mail and others that have 'waged war' against the EU for the past 20-30 years while ignoring the main offenders within our own shores - poor-performing British f###### governments! If you dinne wanna be labeled a 'Little Englander' then stop preaching the same pish from Farage's lying reference manual of deceptions!!

I don't read the Daily Mail as its lies and scaremongering. I also don't read the Express or the Sun either.

[Ska'dForLife-WBA]

IMO the comment 'getting our country back' is common to the Little England mentality with that common statement of ownership of one's country - in reality, part of the English population seemed to embrace this mentality, with 'open arms' and that was part of the so called significant majority (pish, it was near enough a split vote!!!) that forced brexit on the UK population. You conveniently omit the culpability/failures of successive British governments while having a 'real go' at the nasty EU. The current negotiations have clearly just given you another to have a 'pop' at the EU!!!! Another Little Englander mentality - don't disguise it FFS!! What about the poor role and preparation of your own British/predominantly English govt again!!!?? Conveniently omitted AGAIN!! You're reading too many shit tabloids like the Daily Mail and others that have 'waged war' against the EU for the past 20-30 years while ignoring the main offenders within our own shores - poor-performing British f###### governments! If you dinne wanna be labeled a 'Little Englander' then stop preaching the same pish from Farage's lying reference manual of deceptions!!

I haven't made any kind of comment about "getting our country back", and nor would I. You might disagree with my posts on this thread, but have a good long re-read before getting back to me on those labels.

[0762]

Like you, I'll beg to disagree strongly re your pro brexit reasoning and, as a current voting UK resident, I certainly regard you and others who still bizarrely favour an EU exit, as definitely in a minority as common sense and reason finally prevail in the British population and no surprise at the turnaround ether TBF. The 'big bad EU' was never as abhorrent as being portrayed and btw we democratically voted in our MEPs to 'fight our corner' in Brussels anyway - that covered the 'awful laws' you refer to and all sorts of other common criticisms that emanate from brexiteers with very little substance to their arguments, economic and otherwise.

[spireitematt]

IMO the comment 'getting our country back' is common to the Little England mentality with that common statement of ownership of one's country - in reality, part of the English population seemed to embrace this mentality, with 'open arms' and that was part of the so called significant majority (pish, it was near enough a split vote!!!) that forced brexit on the UK population. You conveniently omit the culpability/failures of successive British governments while having a 'real go' at the nasty EU. The current negotiations have clearly just given you another to have a 'pop' at the EU!!!! Another Little Englander mentality - don't disguise it FFS!! What about the poor role and preparation of your own British/predominantly English govt again!!!?? Conveniently omitted AGAIN!! You're reading too many shit tabloids like the Daily Mail and others that have 'waged war' against the EU for the past 20-30 years while ignoring the main offenders within our own shores - poor-performing British f###### governments! If you dinne wanna be labeled a 'Little Englander' then stop preaching the same pish from Farage's lying reference manual of deceptions!!

I haven't made any kind of comment about "getting our country back", and nor would I.  You might disagree with my posts on this thread, but have a good long re-read before getting back to me on those labels.

What he's doing is he's labelling anyone who is Eurosceptic or voted Leave as "Little Englanders" and "English Nationalists". Also not everyone who voted to Leave will be a Farage fan or a Ukipper. Everybody who voted Leave will have had different reasons for doing so.

[Ska'dForLife-WBA]

Like you, I'll beg to disagree strongly re your pro brexit reasoning and, as a current voting UK resident, I certainly regard you and others who still bizarrely favour an EU exit, as definitely in a minority as common sense and reason finally prevail in the British population and no surprise at the turnaround ether TBF. The 'big bad EU' was never as abhorrent as being portrayed and btw we democratically voted in our MEPs to 'fight our corner' in Brussels anyway - that covered the 'awful laws' you refer to and all sorts of other common criticisms that emanate from brexiteers with very little substance to their arguments, economic and otherwise.

I'm going to make this as clear as I possibly can.

1. I have no "pro-Brexit reasoning", because I'm not pro-Brexit.
2. I don't favour an EU exit, bizarrely or otherwise. I voted to Remain, and would do so again.
3. I haven't referred to any "awful laws". I've said literally none of the things you're attributing to me.

Now, please have another think about those labels.

[St Charles Owl]

0762, I don't think there is anyone on here who is firmly in the leave camp!! I didn't vote, actually wasn't eligible to vote anyway, but I have always thought it was a mistake to leave the EU, but now its done I had hoped we would be able to negotiate a decent exit. I am not pro-independence for Scotland, I don't think I have hidden that, but again I have no eligibility to vote anyway, so wanting the UK to stay together is just my opinion.