[0762]

I'm just reading another revelation re Westminster's use of MI5 to snoop on the operations of the SNP and basically try to 'dig up as much dirt' as they can in their campaign against the Scottish govt. The establishment scumbags down there hate the SNP and the fact that the current Scottish govt is still well backed by the Scottish population in spite of all the unionist efforts to discredit them. On the same subject, I can recall an account on bbc radio 4 by the great SNP stalwart, Winnie Ewing, who recalled a period in the 1960s when she was a sitting MP in the Westminster parliament and she was alarmed at being regularly followed at night by what turned out to be UK govt security people watching her every move. She complained to a close Labour Party MP/ friend and the practise was immediately stopped. It transpired that her membership of the SNP deemed her an 'enemy of the state'! It's a factual anecdote and I'd beg the question, 'Is it any different now in this rotten country when it comes down to this kinda shit'? 21st century Scotland and we are still watching the crass activities of political 'dinosaurs' and their hangers on behalf of the 'British state'!

[0762]

The article suggests that the latest polls show just over 50% would back succession from Spain not 65-70% as you state, but like in Scotland it would be interesting to see if they actually followed this poll question by putting the X in the independence box or not.  I still don't want Scotland to leave the UK, but I do think they have more of a case than Catalonia seems to have as regards history and certainly as regards being a separate country.  Their economy, while about the same size as Scotland's though is nowhere near as strong as Scotland's is and that would be a major concern I am sure.  I can just imagine the dismay in the corridors of the EU of the hassle this would cause right in the middle of the Brexit negotiations, this would become another headache for them to figure out exactly what will happen if this goes ahead as once again it will be uncharted territory!!  Current EU rules could also mean that Spain would be able to veto Catalonia from entering the EU as well as it requires a 100% acceptance from current members.  Definitely going to be interesting to see what happens.

I'm in Barcelona at the moment and attended a massive pro indy/anti Spanish gov tactics rally in the city centre at Placa de Catalunya. Great to see that passion among 100s of 1000s of peaceful protesting Catalans to gain their self-determination. Sadly witnessed spats with negative civil guards/Spanish gov police trying to confiscate ballot boxes while urban police (Catalans) not getting involved but overall very peaceful with peace roses being thrown at these 'bruisers'. What a pleasure to witness this historical moment and just wish I'd brought a Scottish saltire to hoist in solidarity with the Catalonian cause.

[0762]

Listening to Nicola Sturgeon's great speech at the end of the SNP conference - touting the achievements over the last 10 years and she's doing it in style. I love the setting up of a publicly owned 'not for profit' energy company thereby ensuring consumers are not being 'ripped off' any more. The theme of this speech is progressive government and it covers a commitment on a multitude of 'targets for improvement' - housing (more new houses/affordable homes built than anywhere in the UK, 8k completed and more to follow), top class green energy policies, a sustainable green economy, tackling inequality, educational attainment, land reform (the island of Ulva given permission to own it), transport improvement incl the construction of the Queensferry Crossing and lots of other positive policies. And a message to the Westminster Parliament - HANDS OFF OUR PARLIAMENT!!! Also the lack of an oil fund for Scotland, another shit Westminster decision in the late 70s while Norway has a current oil fund of approx $3T!!! Great stuff! Showing her box of Strepsils at the start of her speech was priceless lol - this was no 'car crash speech' and comparing the UK PM with the 1st Minister is 'chalk n cheese'!

[hibeejim21]

It was a good speech, but i was struck by how much common ground they share with corbyns labour party, the publicly owned energy company being a prime example. Its a shame the parties can't find some way to work together to defeat the tories.

Meanwhile listening to mays interview there was real 'car crash' stuff. An utterly vacuous,cold hearted,lying shitebag of a woman. She is wilfully leading the nation into the disaster of a 'no deal' brexit,where they will wave the union jack and blame johnny foreigner.

The woman is xxxx deranged.

[spireitematt]

I watched the speech. The Non-profit Energy company is a good idea and so is the Council & affordable housing and the money being given to councils for houses and if you don't use the full allocated money you lose it. If you weren't the Scottish National Party and were renamed something else and not so obsessed with Scottish independence you would win an election in the UK because a lot of what the SNP stands for isn't that far away from the Labour Party.

Let's say Scotland has a 2nd referendum and declares independence and Scotland then joins the EU technically you won't be independent as you will have to accept EU law also you will have to accept the Euro as your currency and not the £ as all new members to the EU have to accept the Euro and the Schengen zone. Also you won't have any money from Westminister and you will have to find the £55 million a day for membership to the EU. Also if the United States of Europe happens then you will be classed as a State not a Country.

Also what happens if you have a 2nd referendum and the result is to stay with the UK.

There's a lot of hypothetical scenarios which need to be thought through and plans put in place. If the British Government had drawn up plans before the EU referendum happened for the different case scenarios we might not be in this shitshow at the moment.

[0762]

I believe the SNP have already 'prepared the ground' when it comes to the hypothetical scenarios (and others) that you mention and the lessons learnt from 2014 and after with 'best options' fully debated and consulted on. Remember a comprehensive white paper was researched, prepared and published in 2014 - compare that with the paltry 'fag packet presentation of brexit' before it arose and even months after it was confirmed. The SNP will be 'one step ahead of the game', believe me!!! One thing about the SNP/Scot govt is they are not standing still and are getting on with the biz for the Scottish people with no resolve for Scot indy yet although it is set out very clearly in article 2 of the party's constitution - nothing to hide but lets just discreetly 'place it on the back burner' while the Little Englanders 'burn the UK boat' with the Brexit fiasco!

[spireitematt]

I believe the SNP have  already 'prepared the ground' when it comes to the hypothetical scenarios (and others) that you mention and the lessons learnt from 2014 and after with 'best options' fully debated and consulted on. Remember a comprehensive white paper was researched, prepared and published in 2014 - compare that with the paltry 'fag packet presentation of brexit' before it arose and even months after it was confirmed. The SNP will be 'one step ahead of the game', believe me!!! One thing about the SNP/Scot govt is they are not standing still and are getting on with the biz for the Scottish people with no resolve for Scot indy yet although it is set out very clearly in article 2 of the party's constitution - nothing to hide but lets just discreetly 'place it on the back burner' while the Little Englanders 'burn the UK boat' with the Brexit fiasco!

Like I said in my previous post. What happens if you get a 2nd referendum and its to stay with the UK then? Have a 3rd referendum?

Also may I ask why you want to leave?

[St Charles Owl]

If there is a 2nd referendum so soon after the first and it sees the same result then that will end any further referendums for a long time!! Might also see the end of Nicola for sure and maybe even the SNP!! She is definitely doing the right thing by putting Independence on the back burner and maybe the whole Catalan thing could play into her hands as well, as long as they gain independence of course.

[hibeejim21]

I believe the SNP have  already 'prepared the ground' when it comes to the hypothetical scenarios (and others) that you mention and the lessons learnt from 2014 and after with 'best options' fully debated and consulted on. Remember a comprehensive white paper was researched, prepared and published in 2014 - compare that with the paltry 'fag packet presentation of brexit' before it arose and even months after it was confirmed. The SNP will be 'one step ahead of the game', believe me!!! One thing about the SNP/Scot govt is they are not standing still and are getting on with the biz for the Scottish people with no resolve for Scot indy yet although it is set out very clearly in article 2 of the party's constitution - nothing to hide but lets just discreetly 'place it on the back burner' while the Little Englanders 'burn the UK boat' with the Brexit fiasco!

Like I said in my previous post. What happens if you get a 2nd referendum and its to stay with the UK then? Have a 3rd referendum?

Also may I ask why you want to leave?

What's wrong with having more referendums in the future ? Are you afraid of democracy or something? Why does 2 defeats have to set the issue in stone forever?

I'd like independence so the Scottish people have full control over their own futures, not as has proven with brexit and the supreme court verdict resulting from it a mainly impotent holyrood.

Sturgeon is a far,far better leader and politician than may,and with even limited powers is doing a far lot more good with them.

[spireitematt]

I believe the SNP have  already 'prepared the ground' when it comes to the hypothetical scenarios (and others) that you mention and the lessons learnt from 2014 and after with 'best options' fully debated and consulted on. Remember a comprehensive white paper was researched, prepared and published in 2014 - compare that with the paltry 'fag packet presentation of brexit' before it arose and even months after it was confirmed. The SNP will be 'one step ahead of the game', believe me!!! One thing about the SNP/Scot govt is they are not standing still and are getting on with the biz for the Scottish people with no resolve for Scot indy yet although it is set out very clearly in article 2 of the party's constitution - nothing to hide but lets just discreetly 'place it on the back burner' while the Little Englanders 'burn the UK boat' with the Brexit fiasco!

Like I said in my previous post. What happens if you get a 2nd referendum and its to stay with the UK then? Have a 3rd referendum?

Also may I ask why you want to leave?

What's wrong with having more referendums in the future ? Are you afraid of democracy or something? Why does 2 defeats have to set the issue in stone forever?

I'd like independence so the Scottish people have full control over their own futures, not as has proven with brexit and the supreme court verdict resulting from it a mainly impotent holyrood.

Sturgeon is a far,far better leader and politician than may,and with even limited powers is doing a far lot more good with them.

I'm not afraid of democracy.

So Scotland want independence and full control over their own futures similar to what most of the people who voted Leave in the EU referendum want but 0762 calls people who voted Leave "Little Englanders".