[0762]

Add in the German economic model and the similar way that Germany runs it's railways, energy provision and public infrastructure - nobody saying that Germany is like 1970s UK eh!! The biggest difference is the massive UK debt compared with the German financial position which is strong and positive! I agree the Corbyn factor is toxic for the Labour Party and it's GE aspirations but the most galling thing is May is no heavyweight politician and is most certainly not the ideal candidate to deal with Brexit either - the whole political spectrum in the UK has been a gradual disaster that nobody can really refute TBF and seems to be getting worse!!! As said previously, let England and a huge proportion of it's electorate be stupid enough to vote in a majority Tory govt on the paltry grounds being described in the Tory media and occasionally on this board - what a f###### joke!! It's Scot Indy 2 for me and f### this unionist con of a 'better together' slogan - it was a con in 2014 when DevoMax was not fulfilled in 2015 as promised in desperation by the 'three shameless amigos' and it's a con today!! I pray that lots more Scots 'waken up' to this con and the fact we can run our country very well with full fiscal powers, thanks very much!!

[themaclad]

Corbyn is a disaster for Labour, he is unelectable!!  May knows this and she also knows this might be the one and only chance she has to actually win an election!!  Assuming that leaked manifesto is real then for me that would be the final nail in the Labour coffin as regards my vote, if I was able to vote!!  In the past I have mainly voted Labour but have also voted Tory and Lib Dem depending on the situation but Corbyn and that manifesto looks to me like something to take Britain back to the Winter of Discontent in the late 70s, and that is essentially what led to Thatcher gaining power!!  Of course we will have to wait to see how Labour intend to fund all these initiatives, as well as tackling the budget deficit in 5 years without there being a major impact on the economy.  Its very noble to make the highest earners pay more tax and to make companies that are successful pay more tax, but post Brexit I would think the last thing we want to do is add to the business tax companies have to pay!!

What's wrong with renationalising the railways again? Ticket prices on railways are too expensive, the trains are dirty and not kept clean and they are owned by German and French companies and those same companies put our ticket prices up to subsidise there own NATIONALISED railways to keep them going is that fair?

Our Energy companies are owned again by French and German companies and they put the prices sky high and people don't bother changing suppliers because there is no point as it would cost more money in the long run.

We have no industry anymore in Britain. Jobs are few and far between, there's far too many temporary jobs and zero hour contracts where the employee has no rights. How people meant to live off zero hour contracts? Yes there alright for Students or if someone wants a bit of extra cash but they don't work for people who have a mortgage and bills to play.

We've have foodbanks in Britain and they are on the rise.

Everyone is saying its going back to the 1970s but you do realise this will be done on a modern economy not the economy of 40 years ago. Look at the Scandinavian model they have a lot of what Labour is suggesting and they are light years ahead.

We can't keep going with austerity and Dickensian economics and keep making cuts to public infrastructure. Austerity is not working.

We live in a selfish society where everyone is thinking what they can get out of it, not what is best for everyone but themselves its the i'm alright Jack, sod you mentality. Where if its not affecting them then its not true and its not happening but when it finally does affect them they are outraged and it will affect them sooner or later.

Matt
You are right about energy changes but that is down to green levies due to the Climate Change Act brought in by Ed milliband in 2008, we are paying through the nose to ensure that people can still live on a clean planet in 2100 when we will all be dead how do you think the Chairman of Veggie Green Rovers has made his billion ofrom the tax payer.
There was a programme on the Beeb about a nun Sister Ruth, she went to a good bank in Glasgow where they had to mark the goods to stop people selling them to get drugs. Like everything that is free it will be abused

[spireitematt]

I like the Labour manifesto its not bad. Corbyn is a nice man but not a great leader.

The way I see it we can't keep going with austerity and Dickensian economics when it isn't working and we can't keep borrowing more money, borrow now and worry later won't work either.

0762 if Scotland leave the Union then Scotland will have to pay a share of the National debt and how are you going to be able to afford the payments to the EU?

[themaclad]

Add in the German economic model and the similar way that Germany runs it's railways, energy provision and public infrastructure -  nobody saying that Germany is like 1970s UK eh!! The biggest difference is the massive UK debt compared with the German financial position which is strong and positive! I agree the Corbyn factor is toxic for the Labour Party and it's GE aspirations but the most galling thing is May is no heavyweight politician and is most certainly not the ideal candidate to deal with Brexit either - the whole political spectrum in the UK has been a gradual disaster that nobody can really refute TBF and seems to be getting worse!!! As said previously, let England and a huge proportion of it's electorate be stupid enough to vote in a  majority Tory govt on the paltry grounds being described in the Tory media and occasionally on this board - what a f###### joke!! It's Scot Indy 2 for me and f### this unionist con of a 'better together' slogan - it was a con in 2014 when DevoMax was not fulfilled in 2015 as promised in desperation by the 'three shameless  amigos' and it's a con today!! I pray that lots more Scots 'waken up' to this con and the fact we can run our country very well with full fiscal powers, thanks very much!!

0762
I've given you a like not for the content but for the fact it's a brilliant rant

[0762]

Lol! Well you can clearly detect the frustration of watching the same shameless political antics of the usual suspects that I've observed so often in British politics and referenda since 2014! It never changes and there is a much of a muchness re the attitudes of all these allied unionists particularly north of the border and I won't be the only voting Scot to be aware of it and highlight that fact!

I like the Labour manifesto its not bad. Corbyn is a nice man but not a great leader.

The way I see it we can't keep going with austerity and Dickensian economics when it isn't working and we can't keep borrowing more money, borrow now and worry later won't work either.

0762 if Scotland leave the Union then Scotland will have to pay a share of the National debt and how are you going to be able to afford the payments to the EU?

We'll afford the likes of the payments to the EU through proper fiscal prudence after we take back full fiscal power to run our own economy and country! For example, based on GERS figures (much of them estimated by financial experts, statisticians and economists btw) did you know that Scotland's current annual incoming finance is roughly £60B with all outgoing finances reckoned to be about £15B and that's without looking at a positive push towards enhancing our inward investments! I think a small country like Scotland can work very well from that economic base and push on with making it better!! Also note that GERS is a very poor advertisement for the Union for obvious reasons and that's why many pro union and UK govt people continually try to undermine the GERS data!

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Br...onomy/GERS

[spireitematt]

Corbyn is a disaster for Labour, he is unelectable!!  May knows this and she also knows this might be the one and only chance she has to actually win an election!!  Assuming that leaked manifesto is real then for me that would be the final nail in the Labour coffin as regards my vote, if I was able to vote!!  In the past I have mainly voted Labour but have also voted Tory and Lib Dem depending on the situation but Corbyn and that manifesto looks to me like something to take Britain back to the Winter of Discontent in the late 70s, and that is essentially what led to Thatcher gaining power!!  Of course we will have to wait to see how Labour intend to fund all these initiatives, as well as tackling the budget deficit in 5 years without there being a major impact on the economy.  Its very noble to make the highest earners pay more tax and to make companies that are successful pay more tax, but post Brexit I would think the last thing we want to do is add to the business tax companies have to pay!!

What's wrong with renationalising the railways again? Ticket prices on railways are too expensive, the trains are dirty and not kept clean and they are owned by German and French companies and those same companies put our ticket prices up to subsidise there own NATIONALISED railways to keep them going is that fair?

Our Energy companies are owned again by French and German companies and they put the prices sky high and people don't bother changing suppliers because there is no point as it would cost more money in the long run.

We have no industry anymore in Britain. Jobs are few and far between, there's far too many temporary jobs and zero hour contracts where the employee has no rights. How people meant to live off zero hour contracts? Yes there alright for Students or if someone wants a bit of extra cash but they don't work for people who have a mortgage and bills to play.

We've have foodbanks in Britain and they are on the rise.

Everyone is saying its going back to the 1970s but you do realise this will be done on a modern economy not the economy of 40 years ago. Look at the Scandinavian model they have a lot of what Labour is suggesting and they are light years ahead.

We can't keep going with austerity and Dickensian economics and keep making cuts to public infrastructure. Austerity is not working.

We live in a selfish society where everyone is thinking what they can get out of it, not what is best for everyone but themselves its the i'm alright Jack, sod you mentality. Where if its not affecting them then its not true and its not happening but when it finally does affect them they are outraged and it will affect them sooner or later.

Matt
You are right about energy changes but that is down to green levies due to the Climate Change Act brought in by Ed milliband in 2008, we are paying through the nose to ensure that people can still live on a clean planet in 2100 when we will all be dead how do you think the Chairman of Veggie Green Rovers has made his billion ofrom the tax payer.
There was a programme on the Beeb about a nun Sister Ruth, she went to a good bank in Glasgow where they had to mark the goods to stop people selling them to get drugs. Like everything that is free it will be abused

I thought you had to be referred to a foodbank by the jobcentre or local GP surgery?

Because he owns Ecotricity. Ecotricity has done well by using solar and wind power.

---

Well you can clearly detect the frustration of watching the same shameless political antics of the usual suspects that I've observed so often in British politics and referenda since 2014! It never changes and there is a much of a muchness re the attitudes of all these allied unionists particularly north of the border and I won't be the only voting Scot to be aware of it and highlight it!!

---

I like the Labour manifesto its not bad. Corbyn is a nice man but not a great leader.

The way I see it we can't keep going with austerity and Dickensian economics when it isn't working and we can't keep borrowing more money, borrow now and worry later won't work either.

0762 if Scotland leave the Union then Scotland will have to pay a share of the National debt and how are you going to be able to afford the payments to the EU?

We'll afford the likes of the payments to the EU through proper fiscal prudence after we take back full fiscal power to run our own economy and country! For example, based on JERS figures (much of them estimated btw) did you know that Scotland's annual incoming finance is roughly £60B with all outgoing finances reckoned to be £15B and that's without looking at a positive push towards enhancing our inward investments! I think a small country like Scotland can work very well from that economic base and push on with making it better!!

Ireland have a smaller population than Scotland and I suppose they if can do it then you can but they are €200 billion in debt though.

[St Charles Owl]

Corbyn is a disaster for Labour, he is unelectable!!  May knows this and she also knows this might be the one and only chance she has to actually win an election!!  Assuming that leaked manifesto is real then for me that would be the final nail in the Labour coffin as regards my vote, if I was able to vote!!  In the past I have mainly voted Labour but have also voted Tory and Lib Dem depending on the situation but Corbyn and that manifesto looks to me like something to take Britain back to the Winter of Discontent in the late 70s, and that is essentially what led to Thatcher gaining power!!  Of course we will have to wait to see how Labour intend to fund all these initiatives, as well as tackling the budget deficit in 5 years without there being a major impact on the economy.  Its very noble to make the highest earners pay more tax and to make companies that are successful pay more tax, but post Brexit I would think the last thing we want to do is add to the business tax companies have to pay!!

What's wrong with renationalising the railways again? Ticket prices on railways are too expensive, the trains are dirty and not kept clean and they are owned by German and French companies and those same companies put our ticket prices up to subsidise there own NATIONALISED railways to keep them going is that fair?

Our Energy companies are owned again by French and German companies and they put the prices sky high and people don't bother changing suppliers because there is no point as it would cost more money in the long run.

We have no industry anymore in Britain. Jobs are few and far between, there's far too many temporary jobs and zero hour contracts where the employee has no rights. How people meant to live off zero hour contracts? Yes there alright for Students or if someone wants a bit of extra cash but they don't work for people who have a mortgage and bills to play.

We've have foodbanks in Britain and they are on the rise.

Everyone is saying its going back to the 1970s but you do realise this will be done on a modern economy not the economy of 40 years ago. Look at the Scandinavian model they have a lot of what Labour is suggesting and they are light years ahead.

We can't keep going with austerity and Dickensian economics and keep making cuts to public infrastructure. Austerity is not working.

We live in a selfish society where everyone is thinking what they can get out of it, not what is best for everyone but themselves its the i'm alright Jack, sod you mentality. Where if its not affecting them then its not true and its not happening but when it finally does affect them they are outraged and it will affect them sooner or later.

Matt, I don't know how old you were but the railways now are far better in terms of just about every feature than they were when they were Government owned!!!!! The railways were a disaster when the Government controlled them and that is one of the reasons that they were privatized. Yes, prices need to be kept in check but thats a regulation issue, not a reason to privatize it again!! In the past year I have been on trains in Italy, France and the UK, and with regards to comfort, cleanliness and overall service there was very little to choose between them. Difficult to compare prices as the journeys I did were all different, but I didn't find any of them particularly expensive.

Out of curiosity, if the German and French railways are nationalized, how is a private French or German company who owns part of the UK rail network even involved or subsidizing the nationalized service in their own country?? The railways there are either private or Nationalized, which one is it??

Likewise with energy, when they were nationalized industries they were not efficient, had little investment and did not provide a great service. They were consistently at the mercy of Government Workers Unions and power outages or shortages were relatively common, there is no way the Government was going to ever be able to keep up with technological improvements in this industry let alone be able to pay for it!! Again, keeping check on prices is a matter of regulation.

As with all government initiatives and programmes, the problem is always how you pay for them. Other countries such as France have tax rates on individuals and companies that are significantly higher than the UKs, yet their higest rate of tax is the same as the UKs. They operate on the basis that everyone needs to pay for these services and that is reflected in theit tax rates. So the only way to really pay for these services is for the average guy in the UK to pay more tax and for the company they work for to pay more tax, if that is acceptable to the bulk of people in the Uk, then it could work, if it isn't then we will go back to the 60s/70s of industrial disputes and poor nationalized services.

[0762]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_...n_railways

The railways in France and Germany are indeed state owned as are the ones in the Netherlands and Belgium all of which I've travelled on and agree they are effective with modern, comfortable rolling stock. Also study the list of state owned railways - not just a few!! So what makes the UK so f###### different from many other state owned railways in similar sized countries? As suggested, certain taxation techniques are different but I'd say more significantly we're dealing with a political ideology where private ownership is sacrosanct and allowing capitalist 'rip offs' is part n parcel of their game!! I must also add that my taxes, your taxes and those of lotsa other UK tax payers were used and invested in state owned railways, energy companies, the GPO etc only for them to be sold off to their Tory supporting pals - all part of a political ideology and a flawed one btw!! Also part of that process was this Tory master plan to attack and weaken the trade unions at every opportunity, all to suit this political ideology and allied to this association with their Tory supporting business pals! Municipal railways and other services that are essential to the movements and needs of the British public can indeed be operated effectively and efficiently in the public domain and contrary to an argument that suggests it's economically impossible. The first railways in this country were actually owned by private rail companies until they were eventually nationalised as the rail network began to expand across the country - it's npt a new phenomenon to revert back to a municipal model with customer friendly prices 'across the board' and profits reinvested in the industry. As the saying goes, 'Where there's a will, there's a way' and that applies in a political sense!! Lastly, I'd like to see the result of a straw poll of regular rail passengers, particularly those in heavily used train servs down south. My gut feeling tells me they'd favour a municipal railways model after enduring the various probs re high prices, ticketing inconsistencies, crowding, a lack of proactive measures to improve the service etc.

[hibeejim21]

Bullshit,there has been little improvement in the rail service since privatisation. What has happened is fares have gone up by hundreds of percent and in scotland our rail network is run for the benefit of dutch shareholders. Yes british tax payers are paying for nationalised services in europe. Deutsche bahne for instance is a private company that runs germanys rail but it is 100% owned by the german state. It also runs arriva in the uk at great profit. Absolutely crazy.

As for corbyn the general thrust of his policies are fine and just,and would improve the lives of millions of people. And going by polls these policies are extremely popular with the electorate. The problem with him is one of credibility,and the team around him are weak. He's not a very good politician IMO but its been interesting seeing him grow in confidence on the campaign trail,he's a natural campaigner whilst theresa may looks extremely uncomfortable away from westminster.

Its funny how labour have to cost everything to the penny (indeed they have offered to have their manifesto independently audited if the tories follow suit - of course they refused) yet gideon osborne was allowed to spunk 750 billion and left us as a country with the square root of xxxx all with zero scrutiny. Its a total myth that the tories are more fiscally responsible than labour.

[St Charles Owl]

Problem in the UK is that we have never shown the ability to run big nationalized industries in an efficient and certainly not profitable way!! Railways, electricity, gas, phones, you name it they always struggled. Now I accept that this is essentially all down to funding at the end of the day and that for me is where the UK is different from those countries you mention. There never appears to be any appetite for tax increases to pay for these services, whether it be by the politicians or the public!! The sense of what is for the good of society is more important in other countries than it seems to be in Britain. Even in this Labour manifesto, they fall into the same old trap as other parties of all persuasions, they have it written into their manifesto that there will be no tax increases on 95% of the population, yet to provide the services they want to will require more taxes to be paid by everyone to be able to effectively run and sustain nationalized industries. The NHS is a classic case, it is the 5th largest company in the world, but requires a huge amount of money to pay for it and to keep developing it as medicine progresses. Everyone complains about it being eroded, or about the service it provides at ground level but you rarely hear anyone say they will pay a bit more tax to fund it properly, and you certainly won't hear a politician say that!!

I don't for one minute think private ownership is sacrosant, but I do think their is an unwillingness on behalf of enough people to say I will pay more to help make it work, and that usually means that market forces will determine what works and what doesn't within the private sector.