[0762]

https://m.facebook.com/OrgreaveTruthAndJ...ale2=en_GB

So the latest Tory Home Secretary, Amber Rudd, surprisingly denies the campaigners any kinda formal investigation into this Thatcher government inspired physical confrontation with the coke miners of Orgreave and other parties who strongly backed them and the future of their community! A cover up as bad as the Hillsborough fiasco? I'd say yes, the only difference clearly being the number of fatalities incurred at this football stadium.

[themaclad]

Labour in power from 1997 to 2010 could have done one then, still waiting for an enquiry into the 1000 or so deaths at Sth Staffs health Secretary at the time Andy Burnham, keeps mighty quiet about that

[0762]

You mean the Blair/closet Tory govt that ruled during that period. I'd never regard it as a true Labour govt and I'm sure many grass roots NLP members view it in the same way.

[St Charles Owl]

You mean the Blair/closet Tory govt that ruled during that period. I'd never regard it as a true Labour govt and I'm sure many grass roots NLP members view it in the same way.

No he meant Andy Burnham, a guy who could equally be labeled as not true Labour!!

I lived in Sheffield through the miners strike, worked in a steel mill at the time and saw the picketing etc at first hand. I don't truly understand what anyone thinks an inquiry will achieve at this point. We all saw the violence on both sides, we all saw the police using heavy handed tactics and running huge horses at pickets, we all saw the abuse given to other industrial workers including at my work by the "flying" pickets, we saw the coach driver killed by a brick being dropped from a bridge on the M1 by miners, we still see the chanting of scab every time any Yorkshire team plays Nottm Forest etc etc etc. What will an inquiry tell us that we don't all already know???

Lets imagine there is a new inquiry. It will cost taxpayers millions of pounds, will line the pockets of the lawyers once again and will probably see both sides were to blame for the violence. It will identify some now retired or dead police officers of doing something wrong, it should identify the leaders of the NUM at inciting and supporting violence by pickets although I doubt that and it should identify pickets perpetrating violent acts against police officers, again all things we all know went on, but aside from that what will it achieve?? If the campaigners are simply out to apportion blame, then fine we know what the only verdict they will accept is anyway and as regards police tactics with crowd control and at these sort of incidents then I very much doubt the SYP or any other police force use the sort of tactics we saw back in the 80s. What happened was wrong, mistakes were made but both sides for me were to blame, but I get the feeling that the campaigners don't want to hear that, they want to blame the police for eveything that happened, and that is equally unfair as blaming the miners for everything. I just feel this is a pointless exercise that does more to harm communities and today's police when that money should be put into true community policing and support to help heal the wounds that exist.

Tin hat is firmly on!!!!

[0762]

I must say I did frown on the huge amount of public money that was piled into the years committed to the Hillsborough enquiry and the usual financial gain of people within the legal profession etc. It's the way it seems to work in this country! Informal knowledge and formal knowledge of the events are clearly two different ways of concluding that this whole fiasco was grossly 'out of order' and the political conspiracy between Police and the Thatcher govt has already been proved with the revelation of secret memos more or less confirming that fact! I agree that formalising such a condemnation would inevitably cost a lotta public money again. However, it looks like the Orgreave campaigners are changing tact by moving from the corrupt, collusive role of the Police to 'fingering' the corrupt 'unscrupulous partner' - namely the Thatcher govt, which has already been exposed in historical chronicles as behaving like a criminal organisation in their quest to bring down the NUM and consequently the huge majority of innocent people within the mining communities.

[St Charles Owl]

Again, I can see what they want but I see no purpose or benefit to any further legal action. If there is to be an inquiry, then it should encompass the whole of the miner's strike, because Scargill and the leaders of the NUM should also be held responsible for a lot of went on. Thatcher was fairly open in her desire to crush the unions, taking on an NUM who were just as much up for the fight so that they could retain the power they had, was probably the most effective course of action to achieve that goal.

As you say, the unfortunate ones in all of this were the mining communities, they were decimated by two corrupt organisations fighting each other when in reality both of those organisations were in existence to help those very people, albeit in different ways. Thatcher was ruthless in her pursuit of the things she wanted and she let many ordinary folk down in that quest, but the NUM in this case were culpable of not remembering what their role was as representatives of the miners and were negligent in their duties in their pursuit of the fight Scargill wanted against a Tory government. There were no winners in this at the end of the day, lets not create a winner now, particularly as it would just be the lawyers who truly get to benefit from this mess over 30 years ago.

[themaclad]

SCO Bob on with only winners will be lawyers

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SCO Bob on only winners lawyers

[hibeejim21]

So basically the police are admitting being ordered to falsify statements and trying to get miners convicted,but just because this scandalous,disgraceful tactic didn't succeed then there is no need for an enquiry? Yet some of the miners spent time on remand and many had their lives ruined because of the events of that day.

This is all about protecting thatchers 'legacy' nothing more,that matters more than truth and justice. I really hope the heat is turned up in hell on that old witches arse the night.

And don't forget the role of the BBC in this,altering the footage to make it suit the authorities case.

[St Charles Owl]

So basically the police are admitting being ordered to falsify statements and trying to get miners convicted,but just because this scandalous,disgraceful tactic didn't succeed then there is no need for an enquiry? Yet some of the miners spent time on remand and many had their lives ruined because of the events of that day.

This is all about protecting thatchers 'legacy' nothing more,that matters more than truth and justice. I really hope the heat is turned up in hell on that old witches arse the night.

And don't forget the role of the BBC in this,altering the footage to make it suit the authorities case.

I think thats the point I was trying to make. We all know essentially what happened and why it happened, why do we need to spend millions on an inquiry to confirm that?? As regards Thatcher's legacy, again it is pretty much set in this area with some of the things that have come out, I don't think any inquiry will change that one!! And to be fair most miners lives were not ruined because of that day, they were ruined because of that year they were on strike and the subsequent closing of the pits and Orgreave was one infamous day in that whole sorry saga.

[hibeejim21]

The decision was driven by a desire to protect the Conservative Party from what would assuredly be the revelation that the behaviour of the Police at that time was sanctioned and encouraged by them for their own political ends. That needs to be put out clearly in the open and for the record,thats how society is meant to work not hiding behind cowardly 'we all know what happened' type thinking.

Theresa May must have known what would happen when SHE first, and wholly unexpectedly, floated the idea of an enquiry, and then amber rudd followed up basically by telling the families it was going to happen before her u-turn yesterday. There is now real momentum towards an inquiry into Orgreave. It is going to happen eventually,so they should just have gone ahead and bitten the bullet.

The tories are basically just trying to keep their right wing in check with this decision while brexit proceeds.