Junior Doctors

**spireitematt** · 12-02-2016, 03:55

What are people's thoughts on Junior Doctors having new contracts forced on them?

I'm in full support of the Junior Doctors.

It looks like its the beginning of the end of the NHS.

**St Charles Owl** · (This post was last modified: 12-02-2016, 07:28 by St Charles Owl.)

I am not up to date with the latest junior doctors situation so can't really comment on that. But having now lived in the US for 15 years I have a much stronger appreciation for the NHS and the service it provides. Unfortunately it's a service that government after government have known the country struggles to afford but none have ever really admitted that nor put plans in place to properly deal with it. The likelihood is that sooner or later there will have to be a tax increase dedicated to helping fund it fully.

As I said I have seen the alternative first hand over here. The service I get in a doctors or a clinic or ER over here is absolutely superb, the best I have ever had and due to me having health insurance I pay some of the charges but the insurance covers the bulk of it. But my health insurance costs me about 800 quid a month (plus my company pays the other 50% of my full premium!!!), plus the copayment on doctors visit and the excess I have to pay like car insurance. So while I get great service, I am paying for it every month and on every visit!!

My take on the NHS therefore is you cannot put a price on the peace of mind of knowing no matter what illness comes along it will be treated for free at source no matter what your financial situation is, and for me that's worth paying the extra tax burden you see in the UK compared to the lower tax here. Probably not the answer to your question but my take on the NHS in general.

Just done some reading of news reports as to what is going on with junior doctors and here are a couple of first impressions I get.

First, the contract should be negotiated not forced. I can see both sides of this but they have to sort it however long it takes.

I actually agree with the DoH on removing the pay increases for time served to introduce a pay scale based on training and ultimately ability. It's one of the things I dislike about the teachers deal where the longer you are there, the more you get paid. In nearly all other walks of life it's your abilities, performance and experience that determine your pay, and that should be the case for teachers and doctors. But to go along with that the opportunities to learn new skills or enhance the ones you already have must be readily available to those who want to advance.

As regards weekends, patients cannot control when they are ill and need hospital care. The NHS has to provide enough capability at weekends as it would any other day while accepting that a lot of day patient care and other services are not covered.

Ultimately this all comes down to money, the doctors want to increase, or at least maintain their pay, and the government is asking them to "earn" it rather than just be given it. The current offer means no pay reduction for three years while all this is implemented and at the end of the day a doctor is well paid once qualified, as they should be. It's a tricky one, the NHS as a taxpayer funded program has to provide value for money but the life and death aspect of the job mean that should not be the only measure.

Amelia Chaffinch · 12-02-2016, 09:46

As with benefits, the government should stop the abuse of the system rather than taking the easy option of shaving money off those who work on the frontline.

**spireitematt** · (This post was last modified: 12-02-2016, 20:02 by spireitematt.)

(12-02-2016, 06:42)St Charles Owl Wrote: I am not up to date with the latest junior doctors situation so can't really comment on that. But having now lived in the US for 15 years I have a much stronger appreciation for the NHS and the service it provides. Unfortunately it's a service that government after government have known the country struggles to afford but none have ever really admitted that nor put plans in place to properly deal with it. The likelihood is that sooner or later there will have to be a tax increase dedicated to helping fund it fully.

As I said I have seen the alternative first hand over here. The service I get in a doctors or a clinic or ER over here is absolutely superb, the best I have ever had and due to me having health insurance I pay some of the charges but the insurance covers the bulk of it. But my health insurance costs me about 800 quid a month (plus my company pays the other 50% of my full premium!!!), plus the copayment on doctors visit and the excess I have to pay like car insurance. So while I get great service, I am paying for it every month and on every visit!!

My take on the NHS therefore is you cannot put a price on the peace of mind of knowing no matter what illness comes along it will be treated for free at source no matter what your financial situation is, and for me that's worth paying the extra tax burden you see in the UK compared to the lower tax here. Probably not the answer to your question but my take on the NHS in general.

Just done some reading of news reports as to what is going on with junior doctors and here are a couple of first impressions I get.

First, the contract should be negotiated not forced. I can see both sides of this but they have to sort it however long it takes.

I actually agree with the DoH on removing the pay increases for time served to introduce a pay scale based on training and ultimately ability. It's one of the things I dislike about the teachers deal where the longer you are there, the more you get paid. In nearly all other walks of life it's your abilities, performance and experience that determine your pay, and that should be the case for teachers and doctors. But to go along with that the opportunities to learn new skills or enhance the ones you already have must be readily available to those who want to advance.

As regards weekends, patients cannot control when they are ill and need hospital care. The NHS has to provide enough capability at weekends as it would any other day while accepting that a lot of day patient care and other services are not covered.

Ultimately this all comes down to money, the doctors want to increase, or at least maintain their pay, and the government is asking them to "earn" it rather than just be given it. The current offer means no pay reduction for three years while all this is implemented and at the end of the day a doctor is well paid once qualified, as they should be. It's a tricky one, the NHS as a taxpayer funded program has to provide value for money but the life and death aspect of the job mean that should not be the only measure.

The pay thing is a bit of a smokescreen the Government want the Doctors to work more than 12 hrs a day possibly as many as 16 now a lot of people I don't think would want a Doctor who is fatigued and exhausted operating or diagnosing them because all it takes is one mistake.

A lot of them are more concerned about the way the service is going not the pay. MPs earn £67,000 - £75,000 a year plus they claim back on expenses and they are set to get another £1,000 pay increase this year. Doctors should be paid more as they save lives where as this Tory Government is putting lives at risk.

Jeremy Hunt wrote a co-authored book back in 2005 about how the NHS should be privatised.

(12-02-2016, 09:46)Amelia Chaffinch Wrote: As with benefits, the government should stop the abuse of the system rather than taking the easy option of shaving money off those who work on the frontline.

It's a minority which abuse the system and the majority of people have to pay the price for it. So people who are ill or struggling to make ends meet or are just unlucky in there circumstances are then labelled as 'Scum' or 'Benefit Scroungers' etc.