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+--- Thread: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? (/showthread.php?tid=2762)
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RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - hibeejim21 - 20-09-2018
So Scotland and northern Irelands wishes are to be ignored even though they will be potentially the biggest net losers in this farce ? The people who voted predominately against it? Aye thanks a bunch.
I want the hardest of "no deal" brexits now.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - 0762 - 20-09-2018
Hear hear! I must also add that a Tory govt, unelected by the Scottish people (and never will be well backed north of the border) negotiating an EU exit on our behalf? That is laughable beyond belief!!! It is "taking the pish" under this flimsy democratic banner, a unionist one.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - hibeejim21 - 20-09-2018
Sadly the hardest of brexits is the only thing that might just wake up the English.
Chequers is "dead in the water" because as I've said from the start the EU will not allow the UK to cherry pick. May is talking about having access to the single market,not paying any fees and no freedom of movement. I mean good luck with that love. Unlike the UK who will happily sell its people down the river for political gain,the EU is standing shoulder to shoulder with Ireland, one of their "smaller" members.
This is the most total and utter shambolic @@***** cock up in the entire history of international politics. What an absolute and total shit fest this government are.
(19-09-2018, 22:33)St Charles Owl Wrote: My choice of the word Regional wasn't meant as a jibe at all, it was deliberate to mean any part of the UK, not just a country or a county but any region could say they were against it and therefore should be treated differently. Scotland wasn't the only "part" of the UK that voted for Remain, there were regions of England that voted to remain and equally should be "ignored" as 0762 said.
It can only be taken as a "jibe" though.
Scotland's nation status is preserved in the act of union. She is meant to be an equal partner of England, not (to quote rees mogg) "a vassel state" or equated to a "region". We are not a "region" of anything, although more and more you hear that term being used down south.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - St Charles Owl - 20-09-2018
(20-09-2018, 16:15)hibeejim21 Wrote:(19-09-2018, 22:33)St Charles Owl Wrote: My choice of the word Regional wasn't meant as a jibe at all, it was deliberate to mean any part of the UK, not just a country or a county but any region could say they were against it and therefore should be treated differently. Scotland wasn't the only "part" of the UK that voted for Remain, there were regions of England that voted to remain and equally should be "ignored" as 0762 said.
It can only be taken as a "jibe" though.
Scotland's nation status is preserved in the act of union. She is meant to be an equal partner of England, not (to quote rees mogg) "a vassel state" or equated to a "region". We are not a "region" of anything, although more and more you hear that term being used down south.
Jim, you can take the meaning of the word however you want, but it really wasn't meant as a jibe!! Remember for the purposes of the referendum, the UK was split into 12 Regions, which in turn were split into 382 voting areas which were the ones that individually reported their results. I wasn't having a dig, that was the official terminology.
The question on the referendum was "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?". The question does not refer to England or Scotland or any other country or region, there is no mechanism for only part of the UK to stay or leave the EU, it can only be the UK as a whole. Every vote irrespective of where in the UK it was from had an equal weight towards the overall result. After the votes were counted it was announced how each voting area within the UK voted and as you say every voting area of Scotland voted to remain but the overall vote was in favor of leave.
My starting point in this was why should Scotland get different treatment to any other voting area or region in the UK that voted remain, as 0762 was intimating?? There were over 80 voting areas in England that voted remain as well as some in Wales and NI, should they get different treatment as well? This was a UK wide referendum, the UK is who the EU will deal with for the negotiations and the current government will lead those negotiations on behalf of the whole of the UK, that can't change or be any different.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - hibeejim21 - 20-09-2018
"My starting point in this was why should Scotland get different treatment to any other voting area or region in the UK that voted remain, as 0762 was intimating?? "
How many of these "areas" have EU law written into their own legal system ?
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - St Charles Owl - 20-09-2018
Not sure what that has to do with anything.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - 0762 - 20-09-2018
I think one of the main differences is the fact the "region" of Scotland is a country in it's own right and it has devolved powers that the Scottish people unanimously supported and they also want more of these powers to be returned to Holyrood. Also the legalities that cover governance and all aspects of Scotland's home affairs are fundamentality set in Scottish Law. Lastly, it was refreshing to hear the FM, Nicola Sturgeon, responding to the Scot Libdems leader re remaining passive in the fight to stop Brexit damaging Scotland, her response being that the UK vote opted for brexit while her campaign to remain was a successful one - so much for the union and it just confirms how the wishes of the Scottish people have been scunnered again and why are the Scot Libdems not joining up on the quest for Scottish Independence!!?? The shaking head of Willie Rennie just confirmed how much of a hypocritical unionist he and his party members actually are.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45586010
Meanwhile a Brexit "no deal" beckons ever closer, a total failure by this current govt if it materialises and, as said previously, lets call a General Election OR we must move towards a people's vote after watching this "mess" evolve month after month after month after month..... an absolute disgrace!
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - St Charles Owl - 21-09-2018
(20-09-2018, 23:52)0762 Wrote: I think one of the main differences is the fact the "region" of Scotland is a country in it's own right and it has devolved powers that the Scottish people unanimously supported and they also want more of these powers to be returned to Holyrood. Also the legalities that cover governance and all aspects of Scotland's home affairs are fundamentality set in Scottish Law. Lastly, it was refreshing to hear the FM, Nicola Sturgeon, responding to the Scot Libdems leader re remaining passive in the fight to stop Brexit damaging Scotland, her response being that the UK vote opted for brexit while her campaign to remain was a successful one - so much for the union and it just confirms how the wishes of the Scottish people have been scunnered again and why are the Scot Libdems not joining up on the quest for Scottish Independence!!?? The shaking head of Willie Rennie just confirmed how much of a hypocritical unionist he and his party members actually are.
Yes Scotland is a country in its own right, but only as part of the UK as far as the EU are concerned. Also doesn't the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 supersede some of the laws under Scottish Law and the devolved powers with regards to the EU and its common laws??
"The European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 (c. 16) is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom that provides for repealing the European Communities Act 1972, and for Parliamentary approval of the withdrawal agreement being negotiated between HM Government and the European Union."
"In devolved administrations, the powers currently exercised by the EU in relation to common policy frameworks would return to the UK, allowing the rules to be set in the UK by Westminster representatives. Ministers of devolved administrations would be given the power to amend devolved legislation to correct law that would not operate appropriately following Brexit. However, the bill also prevents devolved administrations from making changes that are "inconsistent" with those made by the UK government. This significantly limits the power of the devolved governments by making it impossible for them to, for example, choose to retain a piece of EU law that has been modified by the UK government."
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - hibeejim21 - 21-09-2018
All of that is being dealt with in the supreme court currently if i'm not mistaken.
It is all very well, to try to claim that we all have to be dragged down together for the sake of Britishness, but that is a completely false argument. Brexit has nothing to do with the sort of Britishness I, or most of the world, would recognise.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - St Charles Owl - 21-09-2018
(21-09-2018, 01:28)hibeejim21 Wrote: All of that is being dealt with in the supreme court currently if i'm not mistaken.
It is all very well, to try to claim that we all have to be dragged down together for the sake of Britishness, but that is a completely false argument. Brexit has nothing to do with the sort of Britishness I, or most of the world, would recognise.
I completely agree about the folly that Brexit is, I am not arguing with you there at all. We are all being dragged down together but I suppose that is my point, its together as it stands, there is no mechanism for any part of the UK not to be involved or to be treated any differently.