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RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - 0762 - 28-08-2018
(26-08-2018, 12:34)hibeejim21 Wrote: Jacob Rees-Mogg says people should be 'inspected' on Irish border after Brexit as they were 'during the Troubles'
This upper class idiot has no idea what it was like in places like south armagh during the troubles where our troops were in constant threat and had to be flown everywhere in helicopters and living behind fortified compounds.
It really is incredible that he can spout such crap, and get away with it too. Like it was just a matter of checking a few old ladies handbags.
A no deal by default will be hugely dangerous for ireland and the security of the UK.
My words re this Tory imbecile, Rees Mogg, are absolutely unprintable and I'm sure there are millions of folk just like me who share the same sentiments. What I can't "get my head around" is the fact that this upper class toff has been occasionally mentioned as being the next PM. Now that is "having a laugh" and it kinda typifies the poor state of British politics that has been evident for quite a while when one observes this uncaring, selfish idiot finally "pulling an audience" because that is exactly his aim! I tend to ignore him as much as I can - he is not worth the time or patience to heed the shit that he spouts off!
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - Devongone - 29-08-2018
Jacob Rees-Mogg is great. He's a cartoon version of himself, a sort Anti-Bash-Street-Kid, their polar opposite from a parallel universe. His purpose on earth is to remind people why they should never vote Tory. Everyone should remember he has had sex several times and try to envisage that awful picture. It should linger like an etiolated mushroom cloud.
The difference with the Troubles is that the border's function was largely about what was coming from the south into the north. Now with the Irish Republic in the EU, it is acting as the agent of the Commission. It is inventing a scenario to form just another page in the comic that is Jacob Rees-Mogg's political career.
If you spend your life believing yesterday will recur if you move on to tomorrow, you might as well slit your wrists now.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - hibeejim21 - 30-08-2018
(29-08-2018, 13:26)Devongone Wrote: Jacob Rees-Mogg is great. He's a cartoon version of himself, a sort Anti-Bash-Street-Kid, their polar opposite from a parallel universe. His purpose on earth is to remind people why they should never vote Tory. Everyone should remember he has had sex several times and try to envisage that awful picture. It should linger like an etiolated mushroom cloud.
The difference with the Troubles is that the border's function was largely about what was coming from the south into the north. Now with the Irish Republic in the EU, it is acting as the agent of the Commission. It is inventing a scenario to form just another page in the comic that is Jacob Rees-Mogg's political career.
If you spend your life believing yesterday will recur if you move on to tomorrow, you might as well slit your wrists now.
Ireland is not acting as an agent of the commission at all, it is simply trying to protect its own position. If its a hard brexit its border towns could end up backdoor export platforms and criminality would no doubt increase.... and we know certain paramilitaries would be involved.
Logistically a hard border would be a nightmare, consider the A3/ N54 in the Republic, which crosses and re-crosses the border four times in just six miles.
The people of northern Ireland by the way didn't vote to "move on" to anything. They voted to remain, for things to stay as they are. Instead, their lives could be turned upside down.
As for Dublin, they know from bitter experience, that Perfidious Albion cannot be trusted and that a written commitment from the UK Government showing how Irish requirements will be met must be secured.
I've always said that the "implementation period" is much too short to negotiate anything with the EU that is beyond an off-the-shelf free trade agreement, eg. the one with Canada and certainly anything between GB and US/India/China/Australia/Russia will not replace 40% of the external GB trade with the EU. And we will be damn lucky to get even that.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - 0762 - 30-08-2018
Also I must say that no amount of spin can hide the fact that no deal will be a disaster! The latest clash between Saint Theresa and Chancellor Phil Hammond re a no deal scenario typifies the polarised situation. May comments that it will not be all doom and gloom - how reassuring eh! There is a whole industry behind the Brexit unicorn, churning out misinformation on "Project Fear versus Project Fact" - lotsa Cabinet officials beavering away at their laptops and coming up with info (or propaganda!) to allay worries over the Brexit cliff edge looming ever closer!
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - hibeejim21 - 01-09-2018
Not one brexiteer has offered an explanation of how we are going to fill that 80 billion hole. The tories even know its got economic disaster written all over it. Why they want to pursue this knowing that should be the question everyone is asking....should have everyone paying attention.
The most depressing thing is left wingers lining up to help the tories with this. Corbyn is living in an absolute fantasy world, although i suspect he is in for a serious wake up call at conference.
Frustrating thing is that if labour got behind remaining corbyn would actually stand a chance of being PM, lots of people would 'hold their nose' and vote labour so to speak.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - Devongone - 04-09-2018
Jim,
If you invent a hole I'm not sure how it is reasonable to expect other people to explain how they would fill it, when they don't believe it exists, or will ever exist.
Anyway one of MY favourite things at the moment is the assertion that a second referendum would be undemocratic. For sure everyone was told this would be their one and only chance to vote on the issue, but so were Scots on independence and I can't see what's wrong with another vote up there, when enough people want one.
NOW, imagine a future in which relations with Russia decline alarmingly. Demands for military action are dividing the country and tearing the Government of the day apart. Thinking that they would nip the whole thing in the bud and unite their own party, the Government decide to offer a referendum on the issue, certain that the nation would NEVER vote for WAR ..........
Unfortunately during the campaign a prominent Russian businessman is found dead in mysterious circumstances at his home in Bury St Edmunds. Within days neighbours are collapsing at work, a school closes as children fall ill, the Mayor collapses during an emergency council meeting. Within days the entire town empties as refugees are pictured boarding buses with all their belongings and pets .......... THE COUNTRY VOTES FOR WAR.
Immediately military voices are raised in panic. We'll be slaughtered. We have neither the personnel, nor the arsenal to match Russia, we are million miles from ready, we need shed-loads of money spending now or even yesterday. Following the democratic will of the people the Government begins to pump its every resource into readying the country for the war it is preparing to declare. All finance is diverted to the war effort. Hospitals run short of drugs and wards close, care homes are closed and ageing relatives returned to unwilling families. The school leaving age is cut to 14 to reduce the education budget. Oxford, Cambridge and St Andrews are the only universities which remain open. Benefit payments are reduced by 85%. Major projects like HS2 and Crossrail are abandoned and the money diverted. The channel tunnel is closed. Criminals are released to enlist and dissidents take their place in prison. Those over 18, not doing work of national importance, begin to be conscripted. Parliament is suspended. The Government declares itself a national government, takes over the BBC and closes all other media outlets and closes down much of the internet. Countries which are long-standing allies express their philosophical support, but no one rushes to our side as NATO, fatally weakened by America's exit, procrastinates.
Scientists discover that it is already safe to return to Bury St Edmunds. This revelation doesn't even make the News and very few pictures of the population's return make it into the public sphere.
With the country in chaos preparing for a war for which the Russians are also preparing through barely suppressed laughter, a small movement begins here for a second referendum. The Government responds peremptorily that the people have expressed their democratic will and that the war must go ahead. Everyone knows millions will die and the country may be obliterated, possibly plunging the planet into war ............
So in what way would giving people, who have now been given a close-up view of WAR a second chance to vote be undemocratic? And if you'd agree in those extreme circumstances, what and where is the sacred line a second Brexit vote would cross?
I remain pro-Brexit, but I said on here ad infinitum the choice was between NO DEAL and NO BREXIT. Chequers is obviously worse than our current position within the union and despite it being such a bad deal for us, it is still not acceptable to the EU. I expected this, but I don't know about the rest of the population.
If you give people a vote on something and it pans out in ways which they may not have expected I don't see how giving them a second vote destroys the sanctity of the system. Or am I an idiot? If a government wanted to offer a referendum on condition that this would be the last referendum ever then the only question possible should be:-
Should referendums be declared forever unconstitutional and illegal under UK law? YES / NO
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - hibeejim21 - 04-09-2018
If you give people a vote on something and it pans out in ways which they may not have expected I don't see how giving them a second vote destroys the sanctity of the system. Or am I an idiot?
Of course not otherwise why bother with a general election in a couple of years? The people have spoken after all.
I remain pro-Brexit, but I said on here ad infinitum the choice was between NO DEAL and NO BREXIT.
Brexit remains nothing more than a spat between factions of the british ruling class,economy be damned while labour sit on their hole and do nothing.
It's transparently obvious that Brexit is the final act of Tory 'austerity' i.e. tax avoidance and off shore money laundering, with the state being dismantled as a lucrative side benefit which is why the Russian state apparatus and the pink fuckpig in washington is backing them: they will find their useful fools at the laundromat. It will likely spell the end of public services in the UK as we know it.
That's yer brexit. You are welcome to it.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - Devongone - 04-09-2018
I agree that Brexit is the direct result of a spat within the British ruling class.
If we can't overthrow the British ruling class, what hope have we of ever overthrowing the European ruling class?
There has to be more chance of destroying Jacob Rees-Mogg, who looks and sounds like an escapee from a bad seventies sitcom, than a European ruling class protected behind its sinister wall of soothing words and arcane procedures.
Very early on in this process Mr Tusk told leaders of the other 27 countries, that if no deal were the outcome, the UK was unlikely to leave. As EU bureaucracy routinely takes the simplest matter to the wire no one will smell a rat as negotiations extend all the way to the moment we decide we have no choice but to blink. It's simply exercise of power.
As we are clearly going nowhere I'm wondering if it might be better to save face and vote to go nowhere.
I'm sorry, but your picture of a ruling class deliberately causing the collapse of public services is delusional. They are willing to fund the services we win to keep us in our place and maintain their position and way of life. If they didn't benefit we wouldn't have these things. If the risk of Brexit becomes too great for them then it simply won't happen. Their aim is the acquiescence of the many for the benefit of the few. They rule us because we let them. An old-fashioned grandee like Rees-Mogg really isn't in the business of risking his whole world for a quick buck.
I don't know quite why you describe it as my Brexit when I persistently tell you it won't happen. Currently I'd rate Brexit happening as slightly more likely than Hibs winning the Scottish Premiership or Chesterfield reaching the sixth round of the FA Cup. The attempts to save face and retain power will prove an interesting spectacle.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - hibeejim21 - 04-09-2018
(04-09-2018, 18:17)Devongone Wrote: I agree that Brexit is the direct result of a spat within the British ruling class.
If we can't overthrow the British ruling class, what hope have we of ever overthrowing the European ruling class?
There has to be more chance of destroying Jacob Rees-Mogg, who looks and sounds like an escapee from a bad seventies sitcom, than a European ruling class protected behind its sinister wall of soothing words and arcane procedures.
Very early on in this process Mr Tusk told leaders of the other 27 countries, that if no deal were the outcome, the UK was unlikely to leave. As EU bureaucracy routinely takes the simplest matter to the wire no one will smell a rat as negotiations extend all the way to the moment we decide we have no choice but to blink. It's simply exercise of power.
As we are clearly going nowhere I'm wondering if it might be better to save face and vote to go nowhere.
I'm sorry, but your picture of a ruling class deliberately causing the collapse of public services is delusional. They are willing to fund the services we win to keep us in our place and maintain their position and way of life. If they didn't benefit we wouldn't have these things. If the risk of Brexit becomes too great for them then it simply won't happen. Their aim is the acquiescence of the many for the benefit of the few. They rule us because we let them. An old-fashioned grandee like Rees-Mogg really isn't in the business of risking his whole world for a quick buck.
I don't know quite why you describe it as my Brexit when I persistently tell you it won't happen. Currently I'd rate Brexit happening as slightly more likely than Hibs winning the Scottish Premiership or Chesterfield reaching the sixth round of the FA Cup. The attempts to save face and retain power will prove an interesting spectacle.
Oh so it's the EU deliberately xxxx up the negotiations ?
Despite bojo,fox and co saying brexit would be the easiest thing in the world to achieve, despite the fact that its only recently that may has come up with anything remotely approaching a proposal (albeit one that does not deal with ireland,despite repeated warnings and the UK recanting their position from last december) Aye very good. The tories are already running public services into the ground, and selling everything that moves. That is only going to continue post brexit, if you don't believe that then you really need to start doing some reading.
And when i said 'yer brexit' i was talking in a wider sense, not yours personally. But if you don't think its happening you are mistaken - may wants it in name only but she will think nothing about taking us out with no deal to appease the lunatic fringe, who will likely vote down anything the EU offers anyway.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - 0762 - 04-09-2018
I must comment re that Rees-Mogg Tory grandee title. Jacob RM is nothing more than a devious "con" and it disnae stand for Conservative either. Jacob RM is definitely a devious little "clever clogs" who has a knack of making lotsa money from his dealings in financial servs and investments and ensuring it is safely protected in offshore funds and other "shady" practises. He manufactured his current, larger-than-life persona for two reasons. Firstly, to hide his very middle-class, bourgeois origins and desperate need to make money. This is a man who professes that one cannot lead an English nationalist revolution without pretending to a faux aristocratic heritage - if you are not born a Churchill then pretend to be one - he's a "con"!
Secondly, Mogg's fake poshness, to the point of eccentricity, has proved a quick way of getting noticed inside Westminster and he has plotted a power base with other frustrated Tory Brexiteers. A clue to his false makeup comes from his family origins from a long line of Somerset minor gentry - the yeoman backbone of Old England who created the first agricultural capitalist class. Our man Jacob may seem like a reactionary, but he is more dangerous than that! The "posh" disguise masks ruthless ambition and a real talent for making huge sums of money!