(14-08-2018, 21:10)0762 Wrote: Good comments and summation of the press and tv media but add in The National up here that has a high readership and favours the Scot Nationalist cause. I'd say that is why social media is gradually thriving as lotsa people opt to never buy any tabloid or heed some of the nonsensical stuff in the media for the reasons that you mention.

(15-08-2018, 01:04)0762 Wrote: Don't forget Ian Hislop's Private Eye that rightly has a solid readership because they generally "call a spade a spade" and the satire/"taking the piss" out of political "chancers" is top notch.

(16-08-2018, 12:30)hibeejim21 Wrote: The media in the UK is a big reason we got brexit, a big reason we got a no vote in the indy ref, a big reason we get tory governments.

The tories are basically running the country on behalf of Murdoch,dacre and the Barclays. They peddle lies about the EU,lies about patriotism,lies about big bad foreigners,smear the **** out of anyone who isn't singing from their hymn sheet politically (hello jezza) to keep the masses onside and in their pocket.

Meanwhile their riches are in the caymans, and the car workers in Swindon and sunderland might lose their jobs but **** it as long as they and their pals get richer and more powerful its job done.

You only had to watch that smarmy **** grayling on the news last night ludicrously blaming rail workers and trade unions for prices going up. They are actually laughing at us,because they are untouchable and they know it.

(17-08-2018, 16:56)Devongone Wrote: Don't the BBC and ITV count as media? They were massively and unashamedly pro-Remain and remain so. Don't know what you see up in Scotland, but in England whatever the view in London is the BBC and ITV view too. Basically you have to be a racist, known-UKIP supporter if you voted Leave.

I wish Tony Benn and Caroline his wife were still alive so we could see how such cheap stereo-typing should be dealt with. Though I  wouldn't want them to see what wazzocks they produced in lieu of children.

I reckon if you want to express left-wing sentiments not being in a club full of bankers and rich bureaucrats might be a decent start. If Blair and Mandleson are in the room, lock the door as you leave!

(21-08-2018, 18:43)Devongone Wrote: Latest scare story, the hospitals will all run out of drugs after Brexit.

Simple solution, combine them with prisons - always plenty of drugs there.

The Beeb and ITV still rehearse Remain arguments all the time and cross-question Leavers like war criminals on trial ironically about the very idiots charged with negotiating an exit with people who don't want them to leave in any case. The government is slowly developing Stockholm syndrome and very soon will be round Jean-Claude's house for a few hearty rounds of whatever Luxembourg's national drink is ........ I told you at the beginning of this whole process that the choice was really between NO DEAL and REMAINING in the union by whatever means they decided to invent. My view for what it is worth is that we won't leave. All this is just the working in the margins they occasionally let us see.

Of course I can find examples of EU measures I agree with. And that's why the Labour Party is heavily remain. Lots of labour law for instance would be far more oppressive without the EU and it certainly does act as some small protection against the excesses of the Far Right ...... but watch Poland, Italy and maybe Austria to see how far that goes. And the Far Right is a useful tool - just a bit more fear.

The Labour Party is massively pro-Remain - Labour voters however are very different, and that has been a contradiction Labour activists have wrestled with throughout my longish life. Activists are appalled by the opinions of many of the  voters they are attempting to attract.

I like John McDonnell. I'd vote for him, canvass for him, work to get him in power, but I'm very disappointed that he and Corbyn switched to become pussy-remainers when the EU is no more than a trap for a proletariat handed the odd scrap and a few kind words whilst any concept of their gaining power recedes slowly into the distance. But that's the question for Labour and all Socialists, do we want to win some ersatz power for a bit and do a few nice things ...... or do we want to change the world. I want to change the world, and when Mr McDonnell reads Karl Marx, he should too, in my opinion.

The EU itself is caught in a trap between the Nation Statehood of its members and its desire for ever closer union. Like Labour with its supporters whose opinions it dislikes, that looks like the fatal flaw that will eventually rip it apart - if some stupid economic action by America doesn't get there first.

I love our European neighbours, welcome immigration when we know what we are doing, and am excited by change, but if we had a peoples' vote the only reason I could find to switch to Remain is that our political system and the EU itself has so loaded the dice that the process of negotiation looks a project too far for them all.