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+--- Thread: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? (/showthread.php?tid=2762)
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RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - ritchiebaby - 06-02-2018
(06-02-2018, 19:30)spireitematt Wrote:(06-02-2018, 17:24)ritchiebaby Wrote: I would point out that the LibDems are basing their policies on a referendum on the UK remaining in the EU, so there is a national party for the Remain vote.
Not exactly. I've discovered today that a new political party has been set up called Renew Britain which has been set up with the help of En Marche (Macron's party) they are a new British Pro-EU party.
https://renewbritain.org/
The scary thing is they've got some good policies to be fair and it looks like they could park their tanks on Labour/SNP's lawns.
Some of their policies are really good, like house building and raising taxes, if they can get things done. Others are really airy-fairy, like saving the planet and ending extreme poverty (with mobile phones?). Major damage has already been done to the planet and will take 50+ years to even start to reverse.
I also agree with SCO that proportional representation will only lead to more fudged promises and compromises. At the moment I would gladly accept a benevolent dictator to get things sorted.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - St Charles Owl - 06-02-2018
I saw that mobile phone thing as well and have to say I didn't understand what that would be achieving!! I like some of what they say and not other things, but then thats the case with most parties platforms for me. I really only ask that politicians do what they truly think is in the best interest of the country and people they represent even though I might not agree with what they actually do. Stand up for your principles, get elected and then don't waver from them for any other reason than its best for the country.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - 0762 - 07-02-2018
Then wonder why politicians and journos are two of the most despised professions in this country eh? Answers on a postcard to...... The words 'shameless' and a 'gradual deterioration of values and proper behaviour' come to mind!
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - hibeejim21 - 07-02-2018
(06-02-2018, 23:24)St Charles Owl Wrote:(06-02-2018, 20:44)spireitematt Wrote: Proportional representation is good because it means that all parties would have to work together but it would also mean we would have a coalition Government and they can be weak and indecisive. Also under Proportional representation it would mean electoral constituencies would have to be bigger but also that means local issues could be lost in the crowd. It would also mean that parties wouldn't have seats for life in certain areas but also could mean that right wing parties could get MPs elected.
Problem with First past the post is MPs can be elected with a small percentage of the vote. Back in 2005 Labour won the election with something like 32% of the vote.
Coalition governments are usually incapable of creating real change when its needed, everything becomes a compromise in the end. And its not just right wing parties that would get MPs under PR, some of the loony left would also get elected!! You would also likely see a rise in one topic parties getting seats in one election and then disappearing the next - UKIP being an obvious one but before devolution the SNP would have come into that category.
Coalition governments can be very successful actually and have been in europe, What i like about them is that when voters believe smaller parties might form a part of the Government and just may have a chance of political power, they are more likely to vote for a party they really feel represents them rather than just choosing between labour and the tories..... Nothing can be more undemocratic than that.
There is nothing wrong with sharing a mandate and compromising to find a common goal instead of the usual adversarial politics. Single-party government is much more likely to impose badly thought-out policies upon parliament and people, often for narrowly ideological reasons (for example, the poll tax in the UK).
Its time for a new approach.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - spireitematt - 07-02-2018
(07-02-2018, 01:21)hibeejim21 Wrote:(06-02-2018, 23:24)St Charles Owl Wrote:Its time for a new approach.(06-02-2018, 20:44)spireitematt Wrote: Proportional representation is good because it means that all parties would have to work together but it would also mean we would have a coalition Government and they can be weak and indecisive. Also under Proportional representation it would mean electoral constituencies would have to be bigger but also that means local issues could be lost in the crowd. It would also mean that parties wouldn't have seats for life in certain areas but also could mean that right wing parties could get MPs elected.
Problem with First past the post is MPs can be elected with a small percentage of the vote. Back in 2005 Labour won the election with something like 32% of the vote.
Coalition governments are usually incapable of creating real change when its needed, everything becomes a compromise in the end. And its not just right wing parties that would get MPs under PR, some of the loony left would also get elected!! You would also likely see a rise in one topic parties getting seats in one election and then disappearing the next - UKIP being an obvious one but before devolution the SNP would have come into that category.
We had the AV referendum in 2011. 67% of people said No to AV.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - hibeejim21 - 07-02-2018
I was giving a personal opinion,not calling for a referendum.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - spireitematt - 07-02-2018
EU are going to punish Britain.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/06/brexit-eu-power-punish-uk-transition-period-sanctions
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - hibeejim21 - 07-02-2018
(07-02-2018, 01:53)spireitematt Wrote: EU are going to punish Britain.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/06/brexit-eu-power-punish-uk-transition-period-sanctions
That's not what the article relates.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - 0762 - 07-02-2018
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-stocks/ftse-suffers-biggest-drop-since-brexit-vote-as-stocks-sell-off-deepens-idUKKBN1FQ1CF
I wanna see much more of these kinda detrimental effects of brexit on the well-being of the country! IMO the more, the better, and there will be lotsa them - it is high time that many people within the UK population were given a severe 'reality check' of the extreme effects of brexit!!! I compare it to 'sleepwalking' into a nightmare scenario by shameless people some of whom should be lynched for the shit that has been uttered re leaving the EU. Accept openly that brexit was driven by a toxic irrational fear of the EU, ramped up by the 'gutter press' for decades prior to Cameron's 'trip' on the crack in the pavement!! Accept that the only thing these brexiteers care about is teaching Johnny foreigner a lesson down south and pretending we are living in a 1950s gawd luvem comedy. I am an exhausted remainer but even I would prefer we 'called a spade a spade', call a racist a racist, call xenophobia as it is, and self-harm as stupidity and stop pretending it is anything else!!! And as for that irritating quote of 'respecting the will of the British people' - politicians of all persuasions now 'spout it off' when in a stuck position! If we can just openly accept that this comment means being xenophobic and racist to the nth degree, regardless of damage to Britain's socio-economic or trading, then at least we'd all know where we stood and a negotiating progress would follow swiftly.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - spireitematt - 07-02-2018
(07-02-2018, 11:31)hibeejim21 Wrote:(07-02-2018, 01:53)spireitematt Wrote: EU are going to punish Britain.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/06/brexit-eu-power-punish-uk-transition-period-sanctions
That's not what the article relates.
If we break EU rules in the transition period.
Hypothetical scenario. Let's say Scotland leaves the UK and goes independent and joins the EU and then the EU evolves into a federal superstate. Scotland would therefore not be independent would it?